next »

[melos]

Good discussion - and I agree - Fez feels like a rare case where the game had such a long development, and then still released and did well, but has those first-time mistakes . I feel a little pain for the duo since they spent so long on their first game (it certainly seemed like far too much to attempt for a first game, though Fez is wonderful). Fez is a prime example of why NOT to attempt a huge project initially - even if the end game is great, there still goes five years. A lot of that,  possibly is because Phil redesigned the game two or three time before settling on how it is.

[Tanner]

the game actually goes to 213%

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

i think that's with the red hearts or something, yeah; i haven't done all the red hearts yet (just one of them)

[mokesmoe]

I forget what one of the qr-code alt puzzles was but I know two of them don't require newgame+.

Also about the codes: Numbers and key presses aren't too difficult to figure out, and you don't need to figure out the letters.

The shortcut doors made navigating a bit easier but they are a bit hard to find.

The secret newgame+ bonus makes navigating a piece of cake but kinda feels like cheating, and the game doesn't tell you about it at all.

Also the red hearts are dumb. (Red heart spoilers:)One of them is supposed to be really hard but if you interpret it the wrong (and most obvious) way you get the right answer anyways. One of them requires the letters and is still silly afterwards. One of them doesn't even have an in-game way of figuring it out.

[Ashkin]

The secret newgame+ bonus makes navigating a piece of cake but kinda feels like cheating, and the game doesn't tell you about it at all.

Tell me more about this

[Cellusious]

I didn't enjoy fez, so there's that.

I'm not much of a puzzle game player which is probably where that is coming from. If that's the puzzle games in general's fault or just entirely my preference i do not know.
The world in fez looks, sounds and plays great, but.. the puzzles.

I felt they where to 'rigid' and too 'predefined'. In other words only one way to complete them. How the quote exploration unquote is.

If it's just under built quote hate unquote of Fish i don't either know.
 

[Blademasterbobo]

I felt they where to 'rigid' and too 'predefined'.

How the quote exploration unquote is.

 

[namragog]

I felt they where to 'rigid' and too 'predefined'. In other words only one way to complete them.

A puzzle is too linear. A puzzle is too linear for you.
Wh
but

 

[Ben_Hurr]

Well, most good videogame obstacles have multiple ways to solve them if you're clever enough, so I dunno. 

[Irock]

Yeah, like how in 3D Zelda games you can solve puzzles with logic or just clip through walls and shit.

[Ben_Hurr]

See, Irock knows how it is.

[ness io kain]

My roommate has an Xbox and I had played Fez on it some, but I have spent a fair bit more time with it since purchasing it for my own PC.

Everything about it feels -- uneloquently, but accurately: just... nice. The atmosphere is pretty, and it's fun to play. I sat for maybe twenty or thirty minutes trying to figure out one thing and wasn't even upset. The whole game just makes me smile, and few packaged entertainment pieces in recent memory have been 100% joyous experiences for me.

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

Yeah, like how in 3D Zelda games you can solve puzzles with logic or just clip through walls and shit.

the 3d zeldas are bad examples of puzzles with multiple solutions. the earlier zeldas were better

i definitely do think it's better when puzzles have more than one solution. it's just that puzzles with only one solution are so much the norm, so standard in the videogame industry, that i don't really complain or take notice when a game's puzzles only have one solution. in my own games, i try to give puzzles multiple solutions, and when, rarely, i come across it in the games of others it's worth praising, but it's pretty rare. even la mulana, which is one of the best-designed indie puzzle games ever, only rarely has puzzles with more than one solution (although it does have them). it's a pity too, it's not all that hard to think up more than one solution to a puzzle and implement two or three possible alternative solutions, and it adds a lot of value to a game

in fez, there are only a couple of puzzles that i can remember with more than one solution, most of them the QR code puzzles. it'd be nice if every puzzle in fez were like those, and had more than one way to solve it; and sure it's time consuming to come up with them and code them, but i'd prefer a game with fewer puzzles with more solutions to each one than a game full of one-solution puzzles

[GhostBomb]

Having just 200% completing Fez as well I have to say that I think that the red cube puzzles were executed poorly.

They were obviously meant for a group of people to work together to solve them but their clues are all gotten within the play through of just one person.

It feels bad when you spend all this time deciphering all 26 letters of the Fez alphabet only to realize the only puzzle that involves it is so obscure that your only chance is just looking up the answer on the internet.

Also the fact that the game constantly flaunts the fact that you still have stuff missing doesn't help.  No living person on the earth can have the satisfaction of saying "I completed Fez 100% by myself with no help from anyone" because you either know you have something missing or you feel cheap because you had to look up a guide or discussion.

I'm actually pretty sad that the last thing that most people remember about the game was the ridiculously obtuse puzzles because that game had some pretty amazing level design.  I especially loved the low rez cave with the blues and reds with the musical disappearing blocks.

[team_q]

Figuring out the language is more about world building then any explicit puzzle solving, in my opinion.

[Christoffer]

After figuring out the alphabet I went back and translated the entire dialogue with the cube at the start of the game. Still have it typed out somewhere at home in case anyone's interested.

[Ashkin]

After figuring out the alphabet I went back and translated the entire dialogue with the cube at the start of the game. Still have it typed out somewhere at home in case anyone's interested.

I did too. Disappointed at the lack of revelations. For those interested:
hi there how are you i will be your hexahedron today
so this is just a routine procedure but i do need someone here just in case something goes wrong
if something does go wrong you are going to have to clean up the mess
hey wait a minute can you even understand what i am saying and what is wrong with your head
oh well you are here now might as well do this thing prepare to have your mind blown
[after spinning]
all right welcome to the club enjoy your free hat
i kind of thought maybe this would not work because of your weird head but everything looks aok from over here
thanks for the hand you can go home now it was very nice to meet you

[Christian Knudsen]

I found it kinda funny that there weren't any big revelations in that dialogue, and that it just amounted to some casual standard operating procedure talk.

[Christoffer]

I found it kinda funny that there weren't any big revelations in that dialogue, and that it just amounted to some casual standard operating procedure talk.

same. it seemed intentionally humorous to me.

[droqen]

my favourite part of that whole thing was when it, like the villagers, asked what is wrong with your head