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[gambrinous]

Update: Nov 10th

Big changes since the last version
- Brand new art for the dungeon tiles in the style of pencil-on-graph-paper
- Increased game resolution to 1024x768 since tile size is now 150x150
- Hope cards now only become available as rewards for killing monsters
- GUI mostly removed. You can now scroll around the map with the arrow keys.
- Only pick 3 cards per turn instead of 5

--> Try it here (flash) <--
Feedback very much welcomed!

[Patomkin]

I tried few time this game, but I still don't know what I am doing... Should I kill this hero? Should I find some exit? How do I heal him?
And btw, why do I have 3 cards, when hero can perform only 1 action? It's like I'm running way ahead of him in first minute of the game. I have huge dungeon with monsters already, and he is still stuck in first room, going out and in... Should it be like I place something, and he respond?
I hope it is only beginning and soon game will have more gameplay

Oh, and one more: why can't I drag map with mouse?

[gambrinous]

Thanks for trying it out. I agree it's very confusing right now about what your goal is etc. I'm hoping to nail down the major gameplay issues (like cards, dungeon goals, AI, etc), then look at making it more user friendly. Also his 'AI' right now is very, very placeholderish. He basically just looks at the rooms right beside him. To work he needs to have actual goals that are further away than one room, and show them to you as he acts (eg via his text thoughts, but maybe even more clearly like highlighting his target room).

Here's my todo list at the moment:

- Dungeon goals. Starting a dungeon run will have a particular goal (eg find and kill boss monster X). Achieving that wins the dungeon run.
- Actual RPG elements (hero & monster stats, equipment, hero levelling up)
- Some sort of battle system (automated) using the stats & equipment above
- Better Hero AI. He should have some sort of goal (eg explore, escape). He should look further than one room ahead. He should show why he's picking a direction to you.
- More cards, more types of card in each deck. Eg in SEEK there will be random events related to exploration. Event style cards in all decks that have a random chance of X or Y (example, meet an NPC, chance of being helped or fighting them)
- An actual explanation of what you are meant to be doing (or better still, make it obvious)
- Hero AI personality, thinking of doing some fun stuff here like your hero randomly hates all rats and goes out of his way to hunt them. This kind of trait would be randomly generated when you get a new hero.
- Replace the rest of the placeholder art
- A strategic layer for in between dungeon exploration sessions (ie the Guild). Here you can recruit adventurers and choose which dungeon to tackle next.

And some bugs & smaller features, to be tackled as it makes sense to do so
- Bug with '?' explorable spaces that have multiple entry points (only uses first-seen entry point)
- Bug with running out of dungeon space (all dead ends) then picking a SEEK card
- Drag mouse to scroll map
- Ability to cancel card placement after picking one to place
- Possibly only generate room tiles that fit the map perfectly (ie no more putting a left turn that goes into a dead-end wall because you already placed some other room there)

[Orymus]

Couple comments on this version:

• The "preview" cards are too small (when selecting a seek card and choosing where to place it, it is much smaller and, given the art detail now, its harder to see exactly what the tile does). Perhaps a bit bigger would be better? or an abstract representation on the side that shows the "exit points"?
• Deceleration of movement of the hero when it switches tile is too long. In the last second, it even feels laggish which I'm assuming occurs before you're dealing with a movement var that is in double/float/num and not in integer?
• There's no way to know how many HOPE cards I have left for the taking. Since they represent a strategic decision, it would be nice if you could put an icon under them, just like you do for enemies.

Keep it up!

[gambrinous]

All great points as usual. Thanks for the continued feedback!

[gambrinous]

I've been doing some serious thinking about the card mechanic in Dungeoneering

The Problem
- You can't move the Hero in the game, so I want some sort of other interesting, meaningful and ultimately fun choices instead.
- I want the card mechanic to be how you create the dungeon, and I want you to be making some sort of choice based on what comes out of the card decks, ie adapting your strategy to random chance as best you can (FTL-style)
- What I have in the game now isn't doing this. Right now you pick 3 cards per turn from 3 styles of deck (SEEK/DREAD/HOPE), then you play them. I've been trying to work out how to make this interesting (eg making it so you can't choose HOPE cards til your hero beats a monster) but it isn't working. Note: the actual diversity of cards and types of cards will be much higher in future; I'm concentrating on getting the mechanic right before doing actual content.

A Possible Solution
- You start the game with 5 cards in your hand, 3 from the SEEK deck and 2 from the DREAD deck.
- You can play up to 3 cards per turn. At the end of the turn you don't discard what you haven't used, but put them aside. Then the hero takes a turn (like now).
- At the start of your turn you get cards from random decks (SEEK/DREAD/HOPE) to fill up your hand to 5, so you need to play cards to be able to get new ones.
- Cards can have a DREAD / HOPE cost. This is based on the dread/hope level of your hero, which starts at 0. Dread goes up over time naturally. Hope only goes up as a reward for your hero beating monsters. When dread is high, nastier monsters tend to appear from the DREAD deck and similarly with hope and the HOPE deck (nicer items).
- You can't play cards with a cost unless you have enough dread/hope. Playing them then lowers that stat back down.

I'm feeling a lot better about this. Will prototype it and see how it plays!

[Patomkin]

Good decision to change some mechanics! I think they will help and make gameplay better.
But few concerns:

At the start of your turn you get cards from random decks (SEEK/DREAD/HOPE) to fill up your hand to 5

What if I can't play any of this cards? Like, too small HOPE and DREAD lvls? Or map doesn't have any turns left where I can continue path?

What is main objective? To find exit? Then, why should I put DREAD cards at all? And if I don't, then I don't have HOPE to play even HOPE cards? And I will be stuck with cards that I can't play, or I will be forced to play DREAD cards... And I will just put monsters in the corner...

Yeah, I still have a lot of questions Sorry. Will wait and see how your changes plays out

[gambrinous]

I'll see how it plays first, but you could discard a card from your hand as one of your three 'plays' per turn (so a new one will get dealt next turn).

More on this when these changes are in :D

[Patomkin]

A Possible Solution

Can I also throw at you some solutions? :D Maybe we (forum) will come up with new ideas that you like, before you make some gameplay changes?

And still, what is the main objective in the game?...

[gambrinous]

Of course! I'd love ideas & feedback.

The longterm goal of the game is to build up your Guild of Dungeoneering, which is a guild of dungeon explorers. You hire adventurers and choose dungeons for them to tackle. This side of the game isn't built at all yet.

Then when you start a dungeon run you get to the part that is playable right now. Within the dungeon there will be a goal such as 'find and kill the boss monster X' (this isn't built yet). Doing that completes the dungeon and returns you to the guild part of the game, with a levelled up adventurer + some gold/glory for your guild to improve with. If you fail... no worries there are plenty more adventurers eager to get in the game

Hope that clears it up a bit!

[Patomkin]

My thoughts:
• Don't give me decks. Just throw at me some random cards and I will find a way to play them (I see you come up with same idea). This will remove problem where I play only SEEK cards, for example.
• Give me a reason to kill monsters. And not just "lvl up your hero" - because I still don't know why should I lvl up him in a first place. To kill hard monsters? No, I'll put them behind hero and done.
• Add some layer of strategy in the game. Like, reason to put monsters in this room, and not in that. Reason to guard treasures with monsters. Reason to make heroes life harder

And here how I would fix this:
• Give me +1 card each turn, to the max of 10, and then withdraw random card if I reach limit.
• Add "End turn" button, so I could skip some turns, if hero is still running in right direction, or I don't have cards to play, or I don't what to play them now.
• Don't limit player on how much cards he can play.
• Make cards to cost Manna crystals (for example). This will add layer of strategy, where I will choose between playing few cards at once or one high cost card.
• Link heroes lvl with Mana crystals. Now I must kill monsters to get lvl and get even more mana per turn. (for example, max. manna per turn = heroes lvl.)
• Add some "combo bonus" to the cards. For example, if I put item and a monster is the same room - I get bonus for doing this. This will force me to combine cards together: put item in the chest and give key to monster, put water monster in water room, put torch in a room and add flower monster...
• But make "combo bonus" useful. Like, give additional gold, if items are hard to get and monsters are correctly placed. And for a gold you can buy... rooms!

So, gameplay will look like this:
I have 5 cards at the beginning, few rooms and a 1 lvl hero, which gives me 1 manna.
Turn 1 : I start by placing free card: "rat". Hero kills it and gets lvl, but I get 2 mana per turn now.
Turn 2 : I have chest and a sword, but each cost 2 mana. I put chest in farthest room, so hero could not get it next turn. So, at heroes turn he moves toward chest.
Turn 3 : At my turn I will put inside chest this "sword" for 2 manna. Now this room with "chest" and "sword" has "combo bonus". On the heroes turn he will get inside, get his sword, but I'll get +50 gold.
Turn 4 : Now I can go and buy new room... and when I do - I get room with a pot. I can put item inside, or monster. Or both, making this room with "combo bonus". But I don't have "monsters that goes inside pot", so I will play something different, in hope to get this monster in next turn...

[gambrinous]

Some great ideas there Patomkin. 'mana' as the limiter to card use and linked to hero level is good. Will see!

[gambrinous]

Update: Nov 13th

Changes since the last version
- Your hand size is 5 cards, chosen at random from the three types of deck, and refills each turn
- You can only play up to 3 cards per turn
- You can end your turn early if you want

--> Try it here (flash) <--
Feedback very much welcomed!



Next up is dread/hope costs for cards & then into some light rpg mechanics for the hero and monsters.

[gambrinous]

An early look at a possible logo (still WIP):



By the way the artist I'm collaborating with for the game is a talented fellow called Fred Mangan

[gambrinous]

Update: Nov 17th

Changes
- draggable map
- bigger font for hero chatter
- can no longer end turn at will
- but can discard unwanted/unplayable cards (counts towards play limit)
- card chance now weighted, SEEK most likely and HOPE least likely. Any time you have none of a type in your hand, the chance of getting that type is higher
- when you click on a card to place it, you can change your mind with the new cancel button
- map now centers not on dead-center of screen, but a little above it to make up for your hand of cards obscuring some of the screen
- fixed crashing bug when you completely closed all possible exits in your map

--> Try it here (flash) <--
Feedback very much welcomed!

[Patomkin]

Maybe in next patch you can add some objectives... because it is really hard to test, when I don't know what I am doing

[gambrinous]

Haha, yes. Top of the TODO list 

[gambrinous]

An early look at a possible logo (still WIP):



By the way the artist I'm collaborating with for the game is a talented fellow called Fred Mangan

Thought you might like to see the actually pen-on-paper version that led to the more polished logo above..

[gambrinous]

And a little look at the direction we're going for the whole UI:

[gambrinous]

An update on the previous one. Looking forward to getting this in-game