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[agj]

im pushing for the "art game" innovation category this year with aether and coil, its weird though because im worried how the judges will judge innovation.

Both are fantastic and should totally fit the category. Hope that the judges don't go for abstract shoot'em ups or some shit.

[Edmund]

im pushing for the "art game" innovation category this year with aether and coil, its weird though because im worried how the judges will judge innovation.

Both are fantastic and should totally fit the category. Hope that the judges don't go for abstract shoot'em ups or some shit.

Thanks for that

Yeah, everyone seems to have a different definition of what "innovation in game design" and "art game" is. Most of the judges are devs so here's hoping they will judge in our favor i do know that there are still many out there  (game journalists)  who view games like bioshock as " a perfects example of an art game" because of its story and great graphics...

[xerus]

... i do know that there are still many out there  (game journalists)  who view games like bioshock as " a perfects example of an art game" because of its story and great graphics...

 

Yes, this innovation category will be interesting to watch.

[Boukx]

My game is Snapshot.

Don't look.

That looks mighty awesome, xerus. I eagerly wait the necessary gameplay video on youtube.

Mmm it needs a lot more work before its shown.  This work includes scrapping the current build and starting over, haha.

Don't worry, mine needs a lot more work too. The demo I sent was pretty much barebone in terms of gameplay and content.

Plus I realized I sent the wrong screenshot when I entered the contest : http://www.igf.com/php-bin/entry2009.php?id=874
Which goes to show : never enter anything at 5 a.m. after a full day of coding.

[Zaphos]

My game is Snapshot.

Don't look.

That looks mighty awesome, xerus. I eagerly wait the necessary gameplay video on youtube.

Mmm it needs a lot more work before its shown.  This work includes scrapping the current build and starting over, haha.

Don't worry, mine needs a lot more work too. The demo I sent was pretty much barebone in terms of gameplay and content.

Plus I realized I sent the wrong screenshot when I entered the contest : http://www.igf.com/php-bin/entry2009.php?id=874
Which goes to show : never enter anything at 5 a.m. after a full day of coding.

Classic :D

Can we get a real screenshot?

[Paul Eres]

Why would length have anything to do with art or "good games"?

A number of reasons, though none critical. The main one is that art-games tend to be experimental, and experimental games tend to be short. But there's nothing preventing a long art-game from being made. And I'm not specifically referring to good games or art, but "art-games" in particular. I think all games are art, but art-games are self-consciously art, like in the "modern art" sense. Jason Rohrer and Tale-of-Tales are examples.

Also, it's not that long games are better, it's just that I feel most really short games (i.e. games that last less than an hour of total play time before you've seen everything there is to see in the game) don't usually have time to fully explore their central mechanic or theme, and thus they feel unfinished. There are short games that do fully explore that, and there are long games that get repetitive due to exploring them too much, it's just a generalization based on experience that games which are really short (again, less than an hour) are usually that short because they're basically unfinished rather than because they work best at that length.

A recent example of that is Xoldiers. When I played through that game (and made a Let's Play of it for YouTube), I managed to get through the game in 6 minutes. Now, of course some games might work well being only 6 minutes long. But I thought that that game had a lot of potential for interesting level designs that wasn't explored within those 6 minutes, and most of the levels it did have were too similar. Thankfully they added a level editor and some new levels, so that problem probably isn't as much of a problem now.

An example of a short game that did feel fully realized is the Mighty Jill Off game -- I felt that its areas fully explored its mechanics, and were increasingly difficult, and there was enough variety that when you finish it you really feel as if it's a "finished" game, not just a short unfinished game.

[xerus]

My game is Snapshot.

Don't look.

That looks mighty awesome, xerus. I eagerly wait the necessary gameplay video on youtube.

Mmm it needs a lot more work before its shown.  This work includes scrapping the current build and starting over, haha.

Don't worry, mine needs a lot more work too. The demo I sent was pretty much barebone in terms of gameplay and content.

Plus I realized I sent the wrong screenshot when I entered the contest : http://www.igf.com/php-bin/entry2009.php?id=874
Which goes to show : never enter anything at 5 a.m. after a full day of coding.

Haha fucking awesome man you win.

[Paul Eres]

Funny story, once someone asked Cliffski (of Positech Games) in a forum post about a bug in his game, and to show the bug uploaded a screenshot of the game -- along with the desktop in the background, including a torrent link for the game. :D

(He was banned.)

So at least be glad there wasn't porn on the bookmarks toolbar or something, haha.

[Guert]

Funny story, once someone asked Cliffski (of Positech Games) in a forum post about a bug in his game, and to show the bug uploaded a screenshot of the game -- along with the desktop in the background, including a torrent link for the game. :D

Ah ha!

[Boukx]

@rinkuhero : Whaaa ? Porn in my bookmarks ? Never, sir. Never ..... 

@zaphos : uh ... I tried to upload a screenshot, and it didn't work. Something about the size limit, but it's under 128 Kb. Anyone has a clue ?

[Edmund]

Why would length have anything to do with art or "good games"?

A number of reasons, though none critical. The main one is that art-games tend to be experimental, and experimental games tend to be short. But there's nothing preventing a long art-game from being made. And I'm not specifically referring to good games or art, but "art-games" in particular. I think all games are art, but art-games are self-consciously art, like in the "modern art" sense. Jason Rohrer and Tale-of-Tales are examples.

Also, it's not that long games are better, it's just that I feel most really short games (i.e. games that last less than an hour of total play time before you've seen everything there is to see in the game) don't usually have time to fully explore their central mechanic or theme, and thus they feel unfinished. There are short games that do fully explore that, and there are long games that get repetitive due to exploring them too much, it's just a generalization based on experience that games which are really short (again, less than an hour) are usually that short because they're basically unfinished rather than because they work best at that length.

A recent example of that is Xoldiers. When I played through that game (and made a Let's Play of it for YouTube), I managed to get through the game in 6 minutes. Now, of course some games might work well being only 6 minutes long. But I thought that that game had a lot of potential for interesting level designs that wasn't explored within those 6 minutes, and most of the levels it did have were too similar. Thankfully they added a level editor and some new levels, so that problem probably isn't as much of a problem now.

An example of a short game that did feel fully realized is the Mighty Jill Off game -- I felt that its areas fully explored its mechanics, and were increasingly difficult, and there was enough variety that when you finish it you really feel as if it's a "finished" game, not just a short unfinished game.

Mostly true, but there are some "art games" that use the games lignth as part of the art, like Storyteller, I wish I were the moon and Coil.

[Paul Eres]

Yeah, I agree with that.

I never could get past a certain part in Coil (though I got pretty far). I enjoyed it more than Aether, but that's perhaps because I don't like the constant jumping around between planets that Aether requires -- it's fun at first but it gets repetitive after a while. I could see Coil winning for innovation, I'd vote for it in that category were I a judge.

[Edmund]

i be happy getting in with anything ( i also entered Grey matter and No Quarter i wanted to enter Meat boy but ran out of money ). Personally i view Aether as a big personal achievement and by far my best work. but thats based mostly on how honest and personal i was able to make the game and how i was able to convey emotion and story through gameplay. Coil was also personal, but, as you've mentioned, a lot of aspects of its design were flawed and/or too abstract, making it a bit harder for people to finish.

thats the one thing that frustrates me about making a game to be read as an art piece. not everyone will be able to view the piece as a whole because they might get stuck on some aspect of its design, so a lot of what your trying to convey gets missed. But on the other hand if you make something too simple or hold the players hand through the game so they can complete it the piece might feel basic, forced and less magical, making the experience less of a "conversation" and more of story.

but thats something im working on for my next "art game". something that starts out with a vague message that lingers there for the player to figure out himself, so someone who doesn't finish it could still leave with something to think about.

Its something i hope to work on over time, but yeah that's basically where i am now .

[Paul Eres]

I think this is why I liked Planescape: Torment so much (I think it's my favorite art game of all time): you could play through it without any really difficult challenges (except that the beginning escape from the mortuary sequence is a little slow), and the game was basically a dialogue-based game, where your stats determined the choices you could respond to people with. Most of the gameplay wasn't its battle system (which was pretty basic), but the choices you make while conversing with people. So there were no hurdles to overcome, no real way to get stuck, you just converse your way through the game. Fallout 1 and 2 (I haven't played 3) worked similarly. I wish more games would use dialogue-based gameplay, I think it's painfully unexplored.

[agj]

I sent the wrong screenshot when I entered the contest : http://www.igf.com/php-bin/entry2009.php?id=874

And here I was thinking it was on purpose and tongue-in-cheek.