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[Jabberwocky]

No precedent that I know of. That engine is out of the range of most indies, it probably costs hundreds of thousands to license, so I agree that it'd seem pretty bad if that game won. Although the work that went into it isn't insignificant. Still, they probably couldn't have done that at all without that engine.

For sure, a good engine is just a starting point, and certainly a ton of effort was put into this game.  I have full respect for the developers.  It's just the fuzzy area of "indie-ness" that I wonder about.

I am not 100% certain but I don't think you would have to pay upfront for Source engine usage if you planned to release the game on Steam, since games on Steam using the source engine garner a lower royalty rate to pay for the use of the engine.

If you're right, and they received a free version of the Source Engine in return for publishing their game with Steam, that's a publishing contract, isn't it?  Which would make the game ineligable for IGF.

The whole question of whether you're indie or not is a tricky one.  It's tough to say whether there should be more specific rules or not.  Detailed rules could be a huge headache for the IGF to verify, so I can see why they stick to their more vague "indie spirit" rule.  But "Zeno Clash" sorta seems on the brink to me.

[Edmund]

For indies, text is the only affordable option if you're telling a story more complex than Space Invaders or Gravitation. Note that Gravitation tells a very effective story without any text. But personally, I wanted to know more about the situation and the characters.

Personally i think our goal should be to tell a story through gameplay alone, without having to use text or dialog, but thats easier said then done. I attempted that with Aether, but still relied on story text to start and end the game.

Im currently working on a game that will be emotionally driven with a story that is told through body language and gameplay... its still on paper, but i think i can do it.

-Edmund

[Zaphos]

For indies, text is the only affordable option if you're telling a story more complex than Space Invaders or Gravitation. Note that Gravitation tells a very effective story without any text. But personally, I wanted to know more about the situation and the characters.

Personally i think our goal should be to tell a story through gameplay alone, without having to use text or dialog, but thats easier said then done. I attempted that with Aether, but still relied on story text to start and end the game.

Im currently working on a game that will be emotionally driven with a story that is told through body language and gameplay... its still on paper, but i think i can do it.

-Edmund

I don't see why text should be less preferable to any other artistic medium ... Aether leaned heavily on pictures to convey the mood, and less so on text, but I would not say it conveyed very much at all through 'gameplay'.  If we were to replace the art with abstract shapes, and lose the unique color palette, I'm not sure any of the story would remain.

(Also, isn't there text from the characters on the planets, as well as at the beginning and end?)

We only communicate 10% of everything through words, everything else is body language, tone of voice, personal ticks.

10%, hmm. 

[Edmund]

Aether leaned heavily on pictures to convey the mood, and less so on text, but I would not say it conveyed very much at all through 'gameplay'.  If we were to replace the art with abstract shapes, and lose the unique color palette, I'm not sure any of the story would remain.

Well the main story was conveyed through text (boy leaves planet on monster and goes in search of alien life). but the actual story i tried to convey through gameplay, ie as you explore and solve planets earth gets smaller (as the boy delves deeper into his imagination he loses his grasp on reality) finally crashing into the earth at the end and breaking it (becoming lost in his mind).

but it was something i was still playing with then, like i said in one of my next games im going to try to do the same buy with no dialog or text.

 

[Edmund]

what i was trying to say is the mood and basic story used images and text, but i tried to have the players actions tell a story themselves.

[Zaphos]

Aether leaned heavily on pictures to convey the mood, and less so on text, but I would not say it conveyed very much at all through 'gameplay'.  If we were to replace the art with abstract shapes, and lose the unique color palette, I'm not sure any of the story would remain.

Well the main story was conveyed through text (boy leaves planet on monster and goes in search of alien life). but the actual story i tried to convey through gameplay, ie as you explore and solve planets earth gets smaller (as the boy delves deeper into his imagination he loses his grasp on reality) finally crashing into the earth at the end and breaking it (becoming lost in his mind).

Hmm, that part is basically just an animation at the end though; there's no interactive element to it.  The player is not even aware they are causing the earth to shrink.  I would consider the gameplay of Aether to be more the rope-tongue mechanics and the little puzzles at each world the player has to solve, which did not seem to convey any deep story meaning to me.  The worlds themselves convey their individual stories through text and pictures, not through the actual puzzle mechanics.

[Jabberwocky]

There are a lot of games by people I know on there, and it's hard to say this without playing each and every game, so I don't want this to sound too negative, but the entries seem kind of underwhelming to me this year. I.e. there's nothing there that I feel "I definitely want to play/buy that", with the exception of Night Game.

I had the opposite reaction.  Maybe it's a difference in taste.  When I browsed through the list, I wrote down games I thought were strong competitors for a finalist spot, and I quickly came up with way more than there's actually space for.  And I'm sure there's a bunch of fantastic games I skipped over.

Here were the games that caught my eye 1st time thru:

Innovative artsy games: 

• Dyson
• Machinarium  (a personal favorite)
• Night Game
• Osmos
• The Graveyard

Neat puzzle and card games: 

• Bruiser and Scratch
• Puzzlegeddon
• The Far Wilds

Fun platformers: 

• Agatha Ragatha
• Boingo
• Cletus Clay

Slick racing games: 

• Metal Drift
• Zero Gear

Funny, quirky Flash Games: 

• Amateur surgeon
• Gigolo Assassin

RPGs and RTSs with good art and high production quality: 

• Aztaka
• Buckaneer
• Krabbit Online
• Iron Grip Warlord
• Project Aftermath
• The Maw
• Zeno Clash

A well-crafted tower defense game:

• Harvest Massive Encounter

Interactive narrative/story games; 

• A Street Story
• Bleating Sheep Theater Drinking With God
• Dangerous High School Girls in Trouble

And some neat retro pixel art games: 

• Calamity Annie
• Night of the Cephalopods
• Virtual Villagers

I went from being somewhat confident I'd clinch a finalist spot to suddenly not being so sure in a hurry!  But it's great to see so many neat things going on in indie-land.

[marshmonkey]

If you're right, and they received a free version of the Source Engine in return for publishing their game with Steam, that's a publishing contract, isn't it?  Which would make the game ineligable for IGF.

The whole question of whether you're indie or not is a tricky one.  It's tough to say whether there should be more specific rules or not.  Detailed rules could be a huge headache for the IGF to verify, so I can see why they stick to their more vague "indie spirit" rule.  But "Zeno Clash" sorta seems on the brink to me.

no, I don't think so. I am pretty sure the base Source SDK is useable without much difficulty, just like any mod would start with.

[Jabberwocky]

My impression that anything made with the free Source Engine SDK would be classified as a mod.  But maybe I'm wrong about that.

Anyway, I guess I'd rather focus on the really cool entries this year.  My favorite entry, based on what's available to view on the web, is Machinarium.  I absolutely love the art style.  Anyone else have any fav picks?

[policedanceclub]

Blueberry Garden!

[Zaphos]

Blueberry Garden!

Yes!   

I'm also interested to see more of dinowaurs and conflux ...

edit:

I went from being somewhat confident I'd clinch a finalist spot to suddenly not being so sure in a hurry!  But it's great to see so many neat things going on in indie-land.

Also, your game looks pretty interesting!  Definitely hoping to see it there

[increpare]

Personally i think our goal should be to tell a story through gameplay alone, without having to use text or dialog, but thats easier said then done.

Heaven forbid those amongst us who work with IF...

(I think that, as a goal, what you describe is a good idea, and certainly promising, but amn't particularly comfortably with how you articulate it above).

[Flink]

Fun platformers: 

• Boingo

Well thank you!

[Edmund]

Aether leaned heavily on pictures to convey the mood, and less so on text, but I would not say it conveyed very much at all through 'gameplay'.  If we were to replace the art with abstract shapes, and lose the unique color palette, I'm not sure any of the story would remain.

Well the main story was conveyed through text (boy leaves planet on monster and goes in search of alien life). but the actual story i tried to convey through gameplay, ie as you explore and solve planets earth gets smaller (as the boy delves deeper into his imagination he loses his grasp on reality) finally crashing into the earth at the end and breaking it (becoming lost in his mind).

Hmm, that part is basically just an animation at the end though; there's no interactive element to it.  The player is not even aware they are causing the earth to shrink.  I would consider the gameplay of Aether to be more the rope-tongue mechanics and the little puzzles at each world the player has to solve, which did not seem to convey any deep story meaning to me.  The worlds themselves convey their individual stories through text and pictures, not through the actual puzzle mechanics.

Well all actions you do for each of the puzzles also have meaning to what each of the planets represent. and if you go back to earth as you explore you do notice the earth is shrinking... but again i wasnt saying i perfected it with aether, i said i was trying to do it with aether. Its a personal goal of mine.

[Zaphos]

Well all actions you do for each of the puzzles also have meaning to what each of the planets represent. and if you go back to earth as you explore you do notice the earth is shrinking... but again i wasnt saying i perfected it with aether, i said i was trying to do it with aether. Its a personal goal of mine.

Yeah, I know you weren't saying you perfected it, but I was still confused because I didn't think Aether even attempted it, and everything you described is just visual elements which are affected by playing the game but which have no gameplay impact themselves.  But I think we might just have different ideas of what it means to communicate through gameplay; I was looking for the interaction itself to communicate something, where I think you're looking for the interaction to have visual effects that progress the story.  (For example, more like Samorost than The Marriage.)

I still think the preference for pictures over text is totally arbitrary in that context.  Or either context, really -- why would it matter if you use text or pictures to convey the scene?  They're just different means to the same end.