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[J-Snake]

If some of you have checked out my TrapThem you might have noticed that the game is perfectly optimized for a snes-like controller, next to the directionals 6 buttons are used:

4 for the bombs (ideally face buttons)
one for drilling (idally a shoulder button)
one for placing/collecting a crystal (ideally a shoulder button)

Now assuming I want to make a puzzle platformer out of it I would want to add 2 additional buttons,

one for jumping
one for throwing the pickaxe

So ideally the game would require directionals + 8 buttons. I could slim it down to 6 buttons but either I would have to add a level of indirection to some controls or I can limit the amount of bombs to just 2, which will reduce the amount of possible puzzles I can design.

I would like to know, do you come along well with 2D "joypad-games" requiring 8 buttons or more? And are there any games you can refer to?

Thanks.

[HDSanctum]

I'm a PC gamer. I play with a 17 button Razer Naga in one hand and an extended keyboard in the other hand. You aren't using enough buttons !

[J-Snake]

Haha, good.

I might point out a difference though. I want those 8 buttons/actions to suffice "hard realtime" demands, which means they should be accessible in the instant moment you think about them (like in a fighter).

In Pc games you often have layers of menus, features etc. which you can take your time to select. They are often meant to pre configure stuff, not to suffice hard realtime demands. Sure, there are hardcore Starcraft players but there is no intention to design for that audience.

[Eigen]

You have WASD and a mouse button (2 states). Either left or right mouse button but I feel right mouse button would work better for "alternative mode".

2 * 4 = 8

Alternative mode:
Mouse button down + WASD = Place bombs

Regular:
W = jump
D = drill
S = place/collect crystal
A = throw pickaxe

[J-Snake]

Using state-machine design might be good for pc games with tons of features you can trigger independently from each other. But that is not the nature of this puzzle platformer.

But may be arrows as directionals, bombs on 1,2,3,4, and wasd for the rest is ok.
I am personally fine with a xbox360 controller for that. 4 face buttons for bombs, 4 shoulder buttons for the rest. But I am not sure how well it will be perceived using a keyboard (especially with the problem of blocking buttons).

Direct controls allow you to do what state-machine controls don't allow you to do. You can concatenate actions in one flow. The result heavily depends on the way you concatenate actions. For example you can do the following during a controlled long jump: throw the pickaxe -> place a crystal mid-air -> may be init one or few bombs...

So on a related note, is here anyone who can play something like Super Metroid well on a keyboard?

[PogueSquadron]

I don't know how the game works exactly, but perhaps you could have a button that toggles you from "movement" mode to "bomb" mode? Kind of like how holding the R trigger in older FPS games lets you aim? It could help you simplify things.

However, if you need to be able to move and place bombs at the same time, this wouldn't work.

[feminazi]

u shud try to design a beter gam

[Shambrook]

If you're looking at a controller for it, could you put the bombs on the second stick? So instead of having ABXY or what ever the fuck, you use up down left right on the stick to place bombs? Otherwise the jump and attack are gonna have to go on like RB/LB or something and that's just not a good fit. That or you could only play the game on like a madcats fight pad, or an old 64 or sega saturn controller.

[J-Snake]

However, if you need to be able to move and place bombs at the same time, this wouldn't work.

Yep, you should be able doing multiple things in combination, that is why I want direct input.

Otherwise the jump and attack are gonna have to go on like RB/LB or something and that's just not a good fit.

On xbox pad they could go to the triggers, more comfortable than rb/lb.

Valve controller would be ideal for the game but keyboard will work fine too, if the buttons are not blocking. It's mainly that a traditional snes like pad would be out of question for the fleshed out vision. I have a feeling that it is pleasing to play a platformer designed for a snes like pad. Of course that is just an illusion wired to the mind by cultural habits. I can cut corners to simplify things for reduced controls, but I don't want to limit the game's potential if I don't have to.

[mickmaus]

Yes