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[Amirai]

Anyway, to which point has Construct Classic evolved?

Into an excellent, powerful, flexible, fast game creation tool that's by far my favorite one I've ever tried. There's a few quirks left, but honestly, practically all game creation tools have quirks you have to learn about and work around, GM and MMF included.

do you think it is better than GM8.1 today?

I think it is, but keep in mind I've only used GM for about an hour before I decided it wasn't what I was looking for, so if you want a better comparison you'll have to ask someone else who's used both more thoroughly.

I recommend giving it a try, after all, construct classic is free!

[Hempuli‽]

MMF 2 doesn't have any kind of coding language of its own, but these days it can use LUA code (and python? I can't remember) on the side, with some restrictions.

I use MMF 2 myself, and here's how I see the deal now:
MMF 2 - The 'grand old' application. Possibly the easiest to use of the three for a beginner, but has several bad design choices, some stupid workarounds and lacking abilities. Technically a lot worse than either GM or Construct, but in capable hands quite powerful. Currently has the advantage of porting - can port to java and flash, and an iPhone porting tool is in the works.
Game Maker - Probably the most capable of the three due to GML. Has problems with some antivirus programs and creates really heavy games, what with the obligatory loading screen. Very versatile and good in capable hands, but requires some skill. Lacks porting (as far as I know), but is mostly bugfree (as far as I know).
Construct - Probably better compared to MMF 2 than GM due to their similarities. I haven't used Construct, but from what I've heard it's quite beginner-friendly. Offers a lot of possibilities and avoids many design problems that plague MMF 2. However, on the turn side it has some of its own design problems, and even though I've been told else several times, seems to still suffer from some severe bugs that make working on large game projects a bit annoying. Also lacks porting, but Scirra has promised to add that to Construct 2.

[Amirai]

However, on the turn side it has some of its own design problems, and even though I've been told else several times, seems to still suffer from some severe bugs that make working on large game projects a bit annoying.

What are you referring to? I'm working on a large project, and there's only one bug due to the size of the project that I would call severe left, and it's relatively obscure (an IDE memory leak/crash - likely the only reason it's not fixed yet is because I'm probably the only person to encounter it. I don't think they even know it's there because I haven't reported it because it hasn't become enough of a nuisance yet for me to bother tracking it down), but it only shows up when you have hundreds of objects (that's individual objects I'm talking about, not instances - construct has no problem with thousands of those), and even then it can be worked around.

[Uykered]

I've used tgf/MMF2 and Construct for years, Construct is much better designed (its basically MMF3) but doesn't have as many plugins or exporting options so it depends on the game you want to make with them.

[Amirai]

It doesn't have as many plugins, but the ones it has are easily flexible enough to make any type of 2D game. It's so flexible, someone even made their own 3d engine using nothing but events!

[Uykered]

Yes of course it can make a lot of stuff, MMF2 has heaps of plugins though which offer some features construct can't do. For instance MMF2 has a cursor plugin, that lets you replace the mouse cursor with a sprite's image, where as Construct can't do that (the closest it can get is a sprite which is set to mouses coordinates but due to v-sync delay it will always be a frame or two behind making it feel laggy). So if you're making a strategy game, where a cursor offers good visual cues then Construct may not be a good choice.

[Hempuli‽]

The extension boogaloo MMF 2 has is really annoying and messy, but indeed, it allows some really nice things to be done since the users aren't restricted to the built-in functions.

Amirai, I was mainly referring to me keeping hearing of people who say "freaking Construct crashed again", and then being told by other users that "now they've fixed all the crashing bugs". As I said, I haven't used the program myself, but from what it sounds there are still some stability problems.

I wouldn't exactly call Construct MMF 3, partially because such product is in the works and partially because in the end they do have quite a few differences, but the bottom line is that Construct is much more flexible, better designed and useful. I think Construct could benefit a lot from a few 'big' games made with it, since that'd tell people about its capabilities. Currently Multimedia Fusion has stuff like Eternal Daughter and the Spirit Engine, and GM has games like IJI, Glum Buster and Spelunky.

When I first heard of Construct, I took the obvious "Construct sucks and Clickteam products rule!!!" way of thinking because I used MMF, but over time I've realized that it's dumb and one should admit the facts. However, with all this discussion one should keep in mind that all three are capable of making great indie games, so whatever one chooses it's just a matter of becoming good at using the repective program.

[Amirai]

Yes of course it can make a lot of stuff, MMF2 has heaps of plugins though which offer some features construct can't do. For instance MMF2 has a cursor plugin, that lets you replace the mouse cursor with a sprite's image, where as Construct can't do that (the closest it can get is a sprite which is set to mouses coordinates but due to v-sync delay it will always be a frame or two behind making it feel laggy). So if you're making a strategy game, where a cursor offers good visual cues then Construct may not be a good choice.

That particular issue in construct though can be worked around using python. Because you can import python libraries, there's a lot of extra unadvertised functionality. It would be easier if there was a plugin for it, though.

Amirai, I was mainly referring to me keeping hearing of people who say "freaking Construct crashed again", and then being told by other users that "now they've fixed all the crashing bugs". As I said, I haven't used the program myself, but from what it sounds there are still some stability problems.

All of them, no. Most, yes. The IDE crashes on me less than once every couple of months at this point, but that might be (probably is) because I know its quirks. Of the crashes that are still there, aside from the one I mentioned I haven't encountered any others due to the size of the project.

I think Construct could benefit a lot from a few 'big' games made with it, since that'd tell people about its capabilities. Currently Multimedia Fusion has stuff like Eternal Daughter and the Spirit Engine, and GM has games like IJI, Glum Buster and Spelunky.

Definitely. I'm trying to make one myself, but you know how long these things take to make!

However, with all this discussion one should keep in mind that all three are capable of making great indie games, so whatever one chooses it's just a matter of becoming good at using the repective program.

Yup. People have different workflows and preferences as well, so my advice is to try them all to find which they like best.

[QuaziGNRLnose]

Construct sort of has a bad rap for something that's not actually true. It's not buggy at all, i mean it'll crash just as often as gm and mmf2, but its nothing close to game breaking and can pretty much always be worked around by revising your methods. I've yet to have a bug where i lost something i was working on, something i can't say about mmf2. and well gm i've never used extensively, but i've had gm games crash on me plenty of times, have no experience with the actual tool to judge whether it crashes or not.

The event system in construct is worlds ahead of the mmf2/gf/k&P check mark system. Even though there may be a relative lack of custom "objects" like you find in mmf2, there are plenty, and many of the objects in construct have tons of functionality built in to them, way more than you'd find in an mmf2 object. the sprite object alone allows you to do skew XY, xyz mesh distortion, depth buffer placement, rotation, width/height, collisions, collision masks, collision offsets, and so on. every object has a TON of functions, and when you compare the sprite of construct to mmf2's equivalent (active object? can't remember) you see how much more is possible.

i made that 3d game mentioned before in events, and only events, it doesn't use python, it doesn't use custom plugins, its raw construct. expressions made in construct, sprite objects. That's how the 3d works, thats how the animation system works, its an engine built in construct. construct also has a ton of utility you don't find in mmf2 like container objects and the likes just built in. there's a lot of little tools it gives you that you don't really know about till you use the program and ask "can i do X" on the forums.

and to please gamemaker, don't argue that the event system is "catered for beginners" because its really just visual scripting, your IF statements are no different than conditions. Heck i made a whole game just to prove that.

seriously, if you've been using mmf2, you really need to try construct for a bit. game maker is whole different animal though, so again can't provide too much judgement.

[Salevits]

Let's have another round.

I've made several games with MMF2 in the past. Now I feel like I wanna start making games again. I always use low res pixel graphics for my projects (and i want them to look as nice as possible in full screen or 2x/3x scaling), and want to make the game mechanics work precisely as I need them to.

It would be nice to have some of my smaller projects to be played just in the browser for easy access.. But if I'd ever do something bigger and go commercial I'd probably try to sell my stuff in Steam and want it to work on desktop without a browser.

So for someone like me, what would be the best bet?

Game Maker, MMF2, Construct Classic or Construct 2? ..And why?

[Mipe]

I make a living with Construct 2, so there goes my bias. Ideal tool for the lazy and I consider myself to be the epitome of lazy.

Other tools, they require far too much effort just to prototype something. Construct Classic is slowly but surely becoming a thing of the past now that its successor, Construct 2, is extending its desktop deployment with the new node-webkit exporter.

If I had to sum everything up... Construct 2 is ideal for prototyping game ideas. For non-programmers with a knack of logic and game design, Construct 2 is the best out there, as you can build quality games with it (as long as you have the know how) in shortest timeframe. Programmers, however, may feel constrained, so they only C2 to prototype their ideas and then implement those in the programming language of choice. Especially if they don't care about sinking a LOT of time just working on the game engine.

Me? I'm too lazy, so I just skip the "build game engine from scratch" part almost completely, focusing on the game itself instead. Short development time, high turnover, what more can I say?

[ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)]

there are commercial construct 2 games already? which ones?

[Mipe]

There's this Super Ubi Land (http://notiongames.com/) for example, though I'm not exactly sure it's commercial - I'm not exactly good at keeping a track of other games. I'm not aware of any big sellers made in Construct 2, as it is still a relatively young tool and quality titles take a bit longer than the usual proof-of-concept prototypes.

[Amirai]

I've changed my opinion a bit about construct classic. It's still good, but on the basis of what I've exerienced I can't recommend it for large projects anymore. I had more and more issues crop up the more I worked on my game. It seems kind of random which users encounter problems as well, as for some people it seems to be rock solid and yet not for others. I might have encountered more problems than most would because of how long I have been working on my game though, since I started it in a much earlier version when CC still had a lot more problems.

Nowadays I recommend construct 2 instead. It's solved all of CC's problems, is far more stable, has a bunch of new features that are fantastic, and is frequently updated about every week or two. It also has export to PC/Mac/Linux desktop apps.

[danny34]

I notice that these softwares are real multiplatform game making softwares:
GameMaker Studio, MMF, Stencyl, GameSalad and Game Editor.

I think that Construct 2 is different.

[Salevits]

I notice that these softwares are real multiplatform game making softwares:
GameMaker Studio, MMF, Stencyl, GameSalad and Game Editor.

I think that Construct 2 is different.

How is it different?

[danny34]

I notice that these softwares are real multiplatform game making softwares:
GameMaker Studio, MMF, Stencyl, GameSalad and Game Editor.

I think that Construct 2 is different.

How is it different?

GameMaker Studio, MMF, Stencyl, GameSalad and Game Editor don't need third party software to export to different platforms.

[Panurge]

Hope nobody minds me resurrecting this thread. It's been very interesting and helpful to read through but it still hasn't decided me as to my current dilemma...

I started making my game in GameMaker and was getting a fairly good handle on how it works. I felt comfortable using it and was confident that I could get it to do everything I want the game to do. Then I decided I might change the focus of the game, however, and add in a bit of platforming. To test this out, I followed the advice of a friend and used Construct 2 because it was just so quick and easy to use their pre-defined behaviours to knock up a prototype.

I liked Construct 2 so much that I played around some more with it and the C2 version of my game has now advanced beyong the GM one. It would be nuts to develop the same game twice so I feel that now is my last chance to decide which I'll use. Frankly, I get on better with C2 - it's just really easy to use and lets me devote more energy to the creative side of the process. But will I regret that laziness in the future? I plan to be in this for the long run and develop more complicated games once I've found my feet. Also, I plan on having a lot of adaptive text in the current game and while I know how to do that in GM, I'm not sure yet how easy it will be in C2.

Anyway, all advice greatly appreciated.

[moi]

just go with C2
Only problem is Html5 but it could also be an advantage (theoretically lol )

[Panurge]

Thanks. I was happy to hear you say that which makes me think it's definitely the way to go.