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[Christian]

That streamlined Hangar menu looks great and much easier to navigate
Oh, and boss rush?! Excellent

[Arcalane]

Arcalane: Will do the item grade thing. The other suggestions would be really awkward to implement with some of the spaghetti code in the weapon system, unfortunately.

Delicious spaghetti code, something I am all too familiar with. Hangar tweaks look nice!

As a sidenote, in the current demo, it's occasionally possible to access the Minefield (and presumably further levels) by hitting 'Next Level' after getting beat up on Asteroid Field. Speaking of which, Asteroid Field seems significantly more challenging than the other two, and Minefield feels easier than Asteroid Field. Not because of the rocks, mind you. The first wave just feels like total overkill.

Probably all those shotgunners and bulldozers. Those things are nasty.

Thinking some more, the kill-boss-to-unlock-stuff-at-random feels awkward, especially since there's no real way of gauging what you can get from defeating them. Perhaps convert score into some sort of usable currency, and tie the ability to buy stuff to defeating bosses or reaching given waves? That way making it past certain points is still important, and runs where you don't make it too far can still be useful for more than just learning what an area throws at you with every given wave. Could allow for a smoother progression than just 'beat the snot out of <area> repeatedly until you get the upgrade bits you want'.

I suppose that may change if you get stuff for beating them in Boss Rush mode though. Cuts out the waves of mooks.

Ed: Okay, so, got as far as Asteroid Field 5 and the Wreckin' Crew. I didn't even get a good shot in at them because of the asteroid spawning - trying to use them as cover, one spawns behind me or one spontaneously decides to accelerate towards the bosses, bumps another; cue cloud of debris.

I also can't replicate the skip-to-minefield thing any more, not sure what's going on there.

[Christian]

Arcalane: Will do the item grade thing. The other suggestions would be really awkward to implement with some of the spaghetti code in the weapon system, unfortunately.

Delicious spaghetti code, something I am all too familiar with. Hangar tweaks look nice!

As a sidenote, in the current demo, it's possible to access the Minefield (and presumably further levels) by hitting 'Next Level' after getting beat up on Asteroid Field. Speaking of which, Asteroid Field seems significantly more challenging than the other two, and Minefield feels easier than Asteroid Field. Not because of the rocks, mind you. The first wave just feels like total overkill.

Probably all those shotgunners. Those things are nasty.

Thinking some more, the kill-boss-to-unlock-stuff-at-random feels awkward, especially since there's no real way of gauging what you can get from defeating them. Perhaps convert score into some sort of usable currency, and tie the ability to buy stuff to defeating bosses or reaching given waves? That way making it past certain points is still important, and runs where you don't make it too far can still be useful for more than just learning what an area throws at you with every given wave. Could allow for a smoother progression than just 'beat the snot out of <area> repeatedly until you get the upgrade bits you want'.

I suppose that may change if you get stuff for beating them in Boss Rush mode though. Cuts out the waves of mooks.

I agree with this. Having tangible known rewards rather than random unlocks only enhances the sense of progression and improvement. I think it could work one of two ways:
- As Arcalane suggested, earning currency based on performance and a store/armory to buy weapons and modifiers. This would allow the player to develop their own playstyle and loadout at their own pace.
- Make it clear what weapons and modifiers are unlocked for each level and boss, have certain achievements (no damage, par times for waves, etc.) reward the player with weapons and gear, and have different rewards for beating the boss and for clearing wave 10. Keep the progression of unlocking gear consistent and have better unlocks for harder challenges.

And special weapons and modifiers only available through boss rush would be great too, would give the player an incentive to play the mode

[Arcalane]

On a hangar-related note; capacity/consumption rate/recharge time values for the engine 'fuel' should probably be displayed. The Teleporter mentions it recharges slowly, but there's no way of judging that without having it and testing it out

Ed: Okay, that was kind of a neat coincidence/glitch!

Whilst playing around with my shiny new Laser-Guided Plasma Missiles on Asteroid Field, one of them failed to detonate when colliding with an asteroid. Instead, it stuck to the asteroid and applied thrust for a good two or three seconds before detonating.

A drill-tipped/magnetic-clamp warhead that latches onto a target and sends them flying off instead of just exploding could be both a) hilarious and b) effective.

[Christian]

Ed: Okay, that was kind of a neat coincidence/glitch!

Whilst playing around with my shiny new Laser-Guided Plasma Missiles on Asteroid Field, one of them failed to detonate when colliding with an asteroid. Instead, it stuck to the asteroid and applied thrust for a good two or three seconds before detonating.

A drill-tipped/magnetic-clamp warhead that latches onto a target and sends them flying off instead of just exploding could be both a) hilarious and b) effective.

Oh, that sounds really cool. Might not be very effective in the Earth map, but this sounds like a glitch that could develop into a great weapon

If I remember correctly, that's how the hyperdrive engine ability was created, was a glitch, dev liked it, made it into an actual ability

[DarthBenedict]

I think what happened there is that the missile hit before arming (there's a short time when missiles can't explode, stops them getting blown up right after launch and killing you) and didn't trigger a new collision for a while because it was pushing at just the right angle to stick to the asteroid. Clamp missiles sound fun, will have a go at getting them in.

For a currency system, the unlocks used to be done that way but it was really awkward and clunky. I'll add in an option to buy unlocks/upgrades through the hangar with a score based currency, although it'll be pretty pricey so you'll still get most of your stuff via killing bosses. Instead, it'll be a way of working towards that one item you really like the sound of.

Now for some new stuff, the final boss of Radioactive Zone got an overhaul:

It has some new code for independently aiming turrets with limited fire arcs, so trying to stay in its blind spots while dodging the fighters it launches is fun. Some other tricks at its disposal: there’s a rocket turret on its roof and it can conjure spectral minefields in your path.

It's using a different background to radioactive zone in that gif because the gif was recorded in boss rush.

[Arcalane]

I think what happened there is that the missile hit before arming (there's a short time when missiles can't explode, stops them getting blown up right after launch and killing you) and didn't trigger a new collision for a while because it was pushing at just the right angle to stick to the asteroid. Clamp missiles sound fun, will have a go at getting them in.

That would probably do it, then- though I wasn't aware they could inflict friendly-fire on the user. Useful to know I guess.

For a currency system, the unlocks used to be done that way but it was really awkward and clunky. I'll add in an option to buy unlocks/upgrades through the hangar with a score based currency, although it'll be pretty pricey so you'll still get most of your stuff via killing bosses. Instead, it'll be a way of working towards that one item you really like the sound of.

Sounds like a good balance. You can still work towards something, and if you unlock it by coincidence before you earn it, well... you can always spend the resources on something else instead. Win/win, for the most part.

[DarthBenedict]

Backgrounds will be a bit more dynamic next build (not as fast as this, don't want it to distract the player).

[Arcalane]

The ol' Terror Fortress is pretty absurd, just throwing that out there. It's a bit too much all at once and not enough maneuvering space.

That said, the Autocannon is satisfyingly chunky to use.

The saga of missile silliness continues; two got stuck nose-to-nose earlier, and span on the spot for several seconds until they exploded.

[DarthBenedict]

The hangar now uses the whole screen:

The rings on the planet in minefield also had some shader tweaks.

Plus there have been some particle effect improvements:

The ol' Terror Fortress is pretty absurd, just throwing that out there. It's a bit too much all at once and not enough maneuvering space.

That said, the Autocannon is satisfyingly chunky to use.

The saga of missile silliness continues; two got stuck nose-to-nose earlier, and span on the spot for several seconds until they exploded.

Terror Fortress is meant to be a bit of a different experience to the rest of the game. It's definitely winnable (actually one of the quicker ways to unlock stuff once you get good at it), but I wanted it to be about trying to find the tiny part of the arena that isn't exploding and getting there ASAP rather than the open field maneuvering of the base levels.

I made the missile collision physics a lot more bouncy before they arm, that should help prevent them getting stuck on things.

[Arcalane]

Terror Fortress is meant to be a bit of a different experience to the rest of the game. It's definitely winnable (actually one of the quicker ways to unlock stuff once you get good at it), but I wanted it to be about trying to find the tiny part of the arena that isn't exploding and getting there ASAP rather than the open field maneuvering of the base levels.

It's definitely got that 'bullet hell boss' feel about it, but those work because they have very clearly defined and easily-read patterns, whereas with the Fortress there's a lot of red and orange and things coming at you from everywhere as opposed to just from the boss itself. I regularly get blindsided by the central gatlings* due to how fast the shots move, and the artillery pentagram-crosshairs are almost invisible past all the other visual noise (though they're so slow I'm usually miles away from where they were aiming). If it's not either of those, then it's one of those homing-suicide-skull-missile-things, or the pink-purple skulls, either of which can seemingly oneshot me from near-full health. Which I'm generally not at because of all the fire flying around and the RNG being bipolar about health pickups**; either I get tons all at once, none when I need them, or a slow and steady trickle.

*The thing that really bugs me about these things is that they're apparently totally invulnerable to counter-attack with no apparent defense mechanism until you've fragged most of the skull-arms, which feels super-cheap. Gutting the thing from the inside might be cheesy, but when something is in plain sight but inexplicably invulnerable? Feels pretty cheesy too.

**An issue that the Warp Destroyer, Archfiend, and Killdozer (plus others, perhaps) seem to share as well. The lack of mooks for health/coolant/ammo drops cranks things up a bit too much. Archfiend, Lich Lord, Killdozer, etc.-type bosses could benefit from having their missiles or other attacks drop stuff if shot down by the player's weapons - would encourage shooting them down.

Ed: Best I've done so far on the Fortress is 4/6 skulls down.


Anyway, fortress-ramble over. Chem particles are looking pretty nice and that third gif with the fireball reminds me a lot of the ASMD Shock Rifle in a good way.

Something I'm reminded of on the pickups note; coolant pickups restore secondary ammo, but they don't seem to do so if you're completely out. This can be a little rough since ammo pickups seem to be somewhat rarer.

One thing that might be worth considering is adding more detoothed enemy variants to the Target Practice scene (and letting you jump straight back to the Hangar from that, if that isn't already an option) for testing out weapons and effects against other enemy types. Practice vs the boost-dodge/warp-dodge types, for instance.

[DarthBenedict]

I made the Terror Fortress attacks green, it's a fair bit easier to see whats going on now. Thanks for bringing that up.

[Christian]

That new Hangar screen look like it has way too much unused space, too spread out.


The other version was more compact and I think looked neater


Is that extraneous space really needed? I think it looks better in the second image

[Arcalane]

I made the Terror Fortress attacks green, it's a fair bit easier to see whats going on now. Thanks for bringing that up.

*snip*

Yeah, that looks a bit better. It also ties neatly into the whole spectral-green theme that comes up with the Lich Lord and suchlike.

Ed: The green attacks and chem particle updates also make me notice that some weapons (namely missiles + autocannon) can't use the Chem ammo type. Intentional?

I suppose between fire/plasma/chem there's quite a few damage-over-time effects as-is, and plasma is usually the strongest in any given situation. Another option might be having chemical attacks make the target temporarily more vulnerable to non-chemical damage?

That new Hangar screen look like it has way too much unused space, too spread out.
*snip*

The other version was more compact and I think looked neater
*snip*

Is that extraneous space really needed? I think it looks better in the second image

In hindsight, kinda inclined to agree. Former looks too spread-out and isolated. With the space-use style of the latter, you might be able to use two columns for the component lists rather than having one long, smaller-case list.

[Fervir]

How do you determine how difficult an enemy is?
I think a good way would be to see how difficult it is to evade their attacks without attacking.

[DarthBenedict]

The boss rush build is up, here's some gifs:





Changelog:
Added Boss Rush
Radioactive zone final boss has been redone
Terror Fortress now has green bullets, lasers and mortars
HUD now has a boss health bar
Enemies have more varied models/textures
Many enemies now have glowing health indicators
Background objects now move more
Planets now have an atmosphere effect
Camera tweaks
UI Improvements
UI now works with a controller
Blaster bolts now look better
Improvements to how fire damage works
Balance tweaks
Can now stockpile coolant
Minor performance optimizations
Fixed a bug that made background planets occasionally turn black for a single frame
Missiles get stuck on things less
Added photon ammo to chaingun, autocannon, railgun, flak cannon, howitzer, scattergun and missiles. It makes projectiles really fast.

How do you determine how difficult an enemy is?
I think a good way would be to see how difficult it is to evade their attacks without attacking.

How hard an enemy is can be pretty circumstantial. Those tractor beam guys can be a nightmare if they're pulling you into other threats, but alone they're not too bad. The charging enemies are easy to dodge unless something else is holding your attention and they blindside you. Also, how much effort it takes to kill (particularly so for enemies that can teleport or ones that need to be flanked, rather than just things with a lot of HP) can make them troublesome because other things are more likely to get you while you're focused on one enemy.

Ed: The green attacks and chem particle updates also make me notice that some weapons (namely missiles + autocannon) can't use the Chem ammo type. Intentional?

Chem ammo and radioactive ammo are pretty much the same thing. Fire is fast DoT, radiation/chem is slow DoT + speed debuff, plasma is a powerful stun and not much DoT.

That new Hangar screen look like it has way too much unused space, too spread out.

The other one looked good in cropped gifs, less so in game. Would be interested in some feedback on it now that the build is up, might still change it back.

[Arcalane]

Boss Rush/Bosses-in-General: I'm guessing no tech/item/component drops from Boss Rush is to be expected, since it's post-Ragequit/Inferno. Also, throwing in some breather waves with mooks to smash for powerups might be a good idea.

I got as far as the Chem-Dozer before losing because of the rapid-fire roof turret. All in all, a decent run, after very close fight with the Arch-Fiend and Lich Lord had me on the ropes for a while.

The Wreckin' Crew seems to have a serious self-damage problems (the Dakka Squad does as well, for that matter) that makes them a lot easier. Dozers in general have a bad habit of plowing into asteroids and getting splattered by the breakup. Perhaps some kind of energy/force field effect would help protect them - and also serve as a good visual cue for the player that it's preparing to charge.

As far as self-kills go, the blue rocket-arty saucers seem to spontaneously explode on a regular basis as well. I'm not sure if they're getting run over by other enemies charging in, or somehow doing self-damage, or just headbutting asteroids, but they rarely seem to get more than one volley off.

The new health pips for saucer-type enemies looks good, and more fitting with their design. The big health bar for bosses is a huge help as well, though it seems somewhat inaccurate for multi-enemy waves like Eviscerators or Wreckin' Crew.


Hangar: The save/load/etc. icons feel tiny and lonely up in the top left. Aside from that, the new design/layout feels fairly good on 1680x1050.

Coolant Reserve: Building up a reserve is super-nice, less reason to be cautious about picking up a bunch at once.

A similar system for engine boost would be pretty neat, though probably overkill.


Omega: Still chaotic as hell, but the green attacks definitely help a bit. I keep thinking the mortars can hit me whilst they're still overhead but that's more my fault than yours.

Chem ammo and radioactive ammo are pretty much the same thing. Fire is fast DoT, radiation/chem is slow DoT + speed debuff, plasma is a powerful stun and not much DoT.

Hmm. How does plasma's stun effect work? I've been using a heavy plasma autocannon as my main gun, with a standard scatter autocannon as close-defense.

Honestly, aside from really tough enemies and bosses, plasma does so much raw DPS (esp. with the autocannon and gatling) that the stun and DOT effects seem mostly irrelevant.

How hard an enemy is can be pretty circumstantial. Those tractor beam guys can be a nightmare if they're pulling you into other threats, but alone they're not too bad. The charging enemies are easy to dodge unless something else is holding your attention and they blindside you. Also, how much effort it takes to kill (particularly so for enemies that can teleport or ones that need to be flanked, rather than just things with a lot of HP) can make them troublesome because other things are more likely to get you while you're focused on one enemy.

Tractorbeam dudes are the worst when they drag you through a firedozer's flametrail or similar effects.

For bosses, I find most of the difficulty stems from low levels of mooks to kill for pickups, and often low levels of cover from super-long-range attacks (lookin' at you, Warp Destroyer). The more effectively a boss can harass you and stop you from regenning/cooling off, the harder it is.

[DarthBenedict]

No drops in boss rush is a temporary thing, I just haven't assigned them yet.

Bulldozers are meant to be reckless teamkillers, it works really well during regular gameplay and having them do it during a bossfight is meant to show players that you can use certain enemies to your advantage (a fair few of the earlier bosses are designed to teach a game mechanic, for example the megatank is really easy if you pay attention to its projectiles but will kill you quickly if you don't). The blue rocket arty did have a bug that made their second missile pod not ignore collision with the launcher, fixed now.

Engine boost won't be stockpilable because you already get the temporary speedboost from picking it up regardless of whether you need it - the point of adding it to medkits/coolant was to make picking them up always worth something. They're all more powerful if used when the resource is low, but never entirely useless.

Plasmas stun effect can stop some of the bigger enemies from moving/firing if you hit them with something big or keep a plasma chaingun/tesla coil on them. The raw DPS is the main advantage of the ammo type, though - it's designed to trade heat efficiency for damage.

[Arcalane]

No drops in boss rush is a temporary thing, I just haven't assigned them yet.

Gotcha. Good to know it'll be useful for more than just the challenge of the thing, at least.

Bulldozers are meant to be reckless teamkillers, it works really well during regular gameplay and having them do it during a bossfight is meant to show players that you can use certain enemies to your advantage (a fair few of the earlier bosses are designed to teach a game mechanic, for example the megatank is really easy if you pay attention to its projectiles but will kill you quickly if you don't). The blue rocket arty did have a bug that made their second missile pod not ignore collision with the launcher, fixed now.

Teamkilling is one thing - something that is terribly helpful, in fact - but selfkilling is another matter entirely. They might have some excuse on Radioactive and Minefield, but everywhere else I see dozers getting themselves wrecked from hitting asteroids.

Still, that would certainly explain the issues with the rocket arty. Hopefully now they'll be more of a threat.

Engine boost won't be stockpilable because you already get the temporary speedboost from picking it up regardless of whether you need it - the point of adding it to medkits/coolant was to make picking them up always worth something. They're all more powerful if used when the resource is low, but never entirely useless.

I figured. But the mental image of zooming around forever with rocketboosters and a built up reserve of boost power was too good to pass up.

Plasmas stun effect can stop some of the bigger enemies from moving/firing if you hit them with something big or keep a plasma chaingun/tesla coil on them. The raw DPS is the main advantage of the ammo type, though - it's designed to trade heat efficiency for damage.

Interesting. I'd figured it was mostly just sheer impact force that was doing it with the autocannon, since that thing hits like a freight train if you use the heavy barrel.

Speaking of ammo types, using scatter on the autocannon gives it insane knockback/impulse. If you hammer a Lich (or at least, I'm assuming that's what the large-ish spectral-green skulls with the eyebeams are called, since the huge one is the Lich Lord) with rapid fire shots, you can shove them around like crazy.

Good times.

[Tangrin]

Dropping in to say I love this game! I enjoyed the demo a lot.
Good luck on greenlight!