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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesign5+ player major insight
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Uykered
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« on: April 04, 2014, 03:23:50 AM »

Just realized it would be cool to play couch multiplayer games with more than 4 players.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 03:30:43 AM by alastair » Logged
HyMyNameIsMatt
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« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2014, 09:33:39 PM »

The hard part is getting the 5+ people there.  Not to mention all the controllers and such.  5+ seems like it should be an add on rather than being directly designed for.
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« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2014, 10:23:25 PM »

The Wii U lets you have five players. One with the touchscreen controller, four others with the other controller thingies.

But your couch may not let you have five people, unless they are super petite or super friendly.
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Uykered
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« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2014, 12:14:33 AM »

I guess it's just another unbreakable videogame tradition, can't design for more than 4. There's a couple of exceptions but just sucks when you have a large group that want to play a videogame together (example, all these steam games are all 4 player: towerfall, speedrunners, starwhal, samurai gunn, spelunky, monaco and so on).
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Kyle O
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« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2014, 10:20:27 AM »

Some of those examples it seems like it would get crowded. Just play Age of Empires II.
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« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2014, 11:06:09 AM »

4 players is the magic number IMO.  Anything more than that, and it just turns into complete chaos.
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SirNiko
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« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2014, 11:57:15 AM »

I could see you design a game that supports passing around a controller so more than 4 people can play. Once you've designed a game to do that, it shouldn't be hard to increase the number of players to any arbitrarily high number.

Smash Bros. Brawl supports big tournament brackets where four people play in any one match but you can have as many as 32 players join in for the full game, for example.

Or, you might experiment with games that are local coop but online competitively, like perhaps make a game where you and the buddies on your couch are working together to pilot a tank and man various systems, but you're competing against other teams of players through the internet. That gets you the advantages of local co-op but still lets you have games with larger player counts than 4 or 5.
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« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2014, 06:36:22 PM »

Even 2 people at once, but more than 4 total would be cool. Imagine a family, with company over, say on Christmas. Talking and eating are the main attractions, but also a game happens to stimulate social momentum.

In this case there is actually an advantage to having most people hands-free. I think the main barrier here is design. The game must be fun at 2, up to 8 (whatever). No extra tech needed.

LANs are cool too. Need many PCs.
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2014, 01:30:20 AM »

I've made two games that I've played with my friends with 8 controllers.

Unless you've a lot of gamer friends, you really need controls to be super easy. My second had quite complicated controls, and fewer of them gave it a try (still was playing with around 4-6 people though)
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2014, 01:57:27 AM »

I wonder what the average comfortable-seating upper bound is in most homes.

The way into this idea is probably through mobile integration. 3-4 people on the couch, 2 more wondering in and out contributing through their phones. Drop-in, drop-out.
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2014, 02:04:19 AM »

I've played Pro Evolution Soccer happily with 4 players. 5 would break the two side balance. 6 is too crowded. PES actually plays better with 4 players than 2; teamwork kicks in best by then.

Spelunky is great at 2, but gets crowded at 3 players because people can't catch up and they start sacrificing each other.

Quake3/Halo/any FPS makes you squint when the screen splits into 4 parts. Also damn the Quake colors when things are going fast.

Wrestling games are ok with up to 4, any more is a crowd.

Rock Band/Guitar Hero sounds like it could potentially have more than 4 people, but what kind of band has that many instruments?

So far only DOTA does ok with more than 4. But that's because DOTA was optimally designed for 6.

IMO, you have to design specifically for single player, for couch multiplayer (2-4), for LAN parties (3-12), for MMOs (10+ or 50+).


But your couch may not let you have five people, unless they are super petite or super friendly.

That's part of the appeal of having a gamer girlfriend Wink Or just a normal girl who's a friend and plays games and sits on another girl's lap. Because they don't really think it's gay to sit on each other's laps.
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2014, 02:12:06 AM »



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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2014, 05:38:13 PM »

Ten players is great in Killer Queen, and pretty cool in Saturn Bomberman. LAN parties with Halo were the best. I'm down for >5 players, but you really do start needing more space at that point (or gameplay that requires less visual detail)
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2014, 09:58:44 PM »

This is why mobile integration is so hype; it gives separate screens, doesn't require everyone to always be on the couch. Players can take the game "home with them." Lots of players already own the controller.

Mobile integration has so many advantages already. The use of phones/tablets in conjunction with consoles will climb on its own. So using that for this makes sense.
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« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2014, 03:10:01 AM »

This is why mobile integration is so hype; it gives separate screens, doesn't require everyone to always be on the couch. Players can take the game "home with them." Lots of players already own the controller.

Mobile integration has so many advantages already. The use of phones/tablets in conjunction with consoles will climb on its own. So using that for this makes sense.

I keep waiting for that to take off somehow, and it hasn't.  I'm rather disappointed about it.

But to be fair, I haven't come up with any compelling games that could easily be played like that, either.  Phones and tablets don't make good gamepads, so you're limited to games that work well on touchscreen devices again...  And coming up with a touchscreen game that isn't trivia, cards, traditional board game, or match3 is tough.
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« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2014, 08:48:20 AM »

I was playing the 3DS's Mario Kart 7 in a group of five last Saturday. It was great having that many people in a game at once, and not worrying about visibility. Only problem? The colors of the characters were white, green, yellow, dark blue, and light blue. It's way easier to keep track of who's who when you're just using red/yellow/green/blue. But playability was great other than that.
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« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2014, 11:14:19 AM »

crawford, there are several issues with it. Non of them come with developers not seeing the coolness of mobile integration. The problem is with design.

Consider:
 1. Developing traditional games for mobile is hard.
 2. Developing drop in/out is hard (players coming and going mid-game).
 3. Developing multiplayer is hard.

Even given all of that the hardest problem has not been mentioned yet. You have to find a way to combine two disparate experiences. The mobile experience cannot be the same as the console experience. It just can't.... You effectively need two different games that combine.

On top of that you need each game (mobile and console) to be independently interesting, otherwise you'll have a tough time pushing the mobile downloads.

This problem is a trifecta; it is the shit, to be sure... but the design challenges within are monstrous.

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blink, I saw some kids playing that at the theater once in a group. The ultimate couch? They looked awesome.
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