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[returnONE]

Hello guys,
I'm part of a group of 4 friends called Toilet Studio and we are now developing Needless Quest.

Needless Quest was from scratch designed focused on the mobile experience, on the "on the go" players. We want it to be the game you play on that 1 min moment gaps on the bus or on the cafe. But also a game that can entertain for hours if you want.



Important!
Things that we still need to teach the player somehow:
There's a swipe movement by touching on the player and swiping;
Equipments can only be changed going back to the menu;
Elevators make you start the quest on a lower floor;
Pur Mananzas grow your health bar permanently;
Bosses gives you trophies to collect

Any feedback is totally welcome, do not hesitate!
Our biggest challenge today is the monetization model. We decided for the free to play model, but we don't want to use stupid lazy technics like lives or time requiring limitations. So what in app purchases do you think would be interesting to be in the game?

Link to play:
http://needlessquest.com/testing/NeedlessQuest.html

Thanks for your time!

[vv]

Hi!
I really do enjoy the visual style and color palette, it looks very clear, interesting and nice.
The major con I currently see is the repetitivity of game mechanics, and lack of new stuff design-wise. The building elevators and choosing items is done quite well, yet the levels themselves are pretty straight forward, with maybe sometimes avoinding tougher enemies. It is not very hard skill-wise, so maybe some additional puzzle elements would be great.

Wish you the best!

[returnONE]

Hey vv!

Really appreciate the sincere feedback.
I see what you pointed. The basic mechanic is basically the same through the game, except for the boss minigame. Maybe we could add some things like traps with a puzzle to get rewards or get damage. Also some enemies will also have a different reaction when you kill them.
Thanks again, it's really helpful.

[Quicksand-S]

The first problem I ran into was that I thought the game was broken. I thought, "Hey. Cool. I play a snake in this?" Then I clicked and swiped all over the screen and nothing happened. Finally, one click caused a little human/elf/whatever character to pop up and I found out that was my character. It's a very strange idea to let the player choose which stairwell they start at, and I just never expected that. I realize they're highlighted, but it's still a strange concept so I assumed it was a lighting effect or it was showing me the possible exits.

Anyway, once that stair thing was sorted out the game was fine but not particularly exciting or interesting. Nothing happens. There wasn't any challenge or need for strategy as far as I saw.

In terms of player feedback, being sent back to the title screen after the first few levels made it seem like that was the extent of the current build. Only when I went back to check something did I realize there was more. It might be a good idea to make it clear somewhere that there's more (ex. "Tap to Continue Your Quest" rather than "Tap to go on a Quest")

I wasn't sure why I could pick two items but only use one in the actual gameplay. Is there a way to switch between the two I've picked?

I was hoping for various dungeon layouts (ie. walls), but the few levels I played were just big squares with stuff randomly crammed into them and I found that very uninteresting.

I'm not sure what I'd expect people to pay for in a game like this. I'd say you should maybe ask that question once the gameplay is more finished.

The art style is pretty nice and the game works just fine (apart from that text window bug). I just think it needs a lot more substance and challenge. That said, who would you say is your target audience?


Bug: When I click to start, I notice a window of text for less than a quarter of a second that rushes down off-screen. There's no time to see what it says.

[returnONE]

Thanks a lot for the feedback, Quicksand-S!

The main problem that I'm seeing is that the build is absolutely not ready to be presented when we are not beside the player. We've been only presenting it in local gamedev meetings that we went.

The stair choice is weird at first, but is a big part of the strategy. I think we will probably need to write some tips on the tutorial to make it clearer. Do you think it didn't work even after you sorted it out?

On the equipment screen, the upper one is the one that is selected, and the one below is there for comparison. This feedback is also still poor.

The flow of the tutorial and normal gameplay after that is totally not clean. We're going to fix that.

The dungeons are procedurally generated and are not expected to be much more than that, except for the bosses floor. It's much more the surprise of the floor generation than any level design. Do you feel it was also boring on the normal gameplay after the tutorial?

Our target audience is focused on 20~30 people who used to play video games a lot but now do not have time to play it as much as they would like, but have a smartphone to play on the commute and short time gaps like that.

What do you think we could do to make it more clear?

[Quicksand-S]

Once I figured out the stair choice, it still seemed weird (ie. twisting the laws of physics) but yeah, it seems like it could be useful/strategic. With the way levels are currently generated, it didn't make a big difference most of the time. Either I'd head for a health potion at the start, or I'd get healed near the end. There was no clear benefit either way, because no matter which staircase I chose as the starting point I would still take the same path.

What you could consider is adding another staircase to each level. That would encourage players to figure out which goal is safest to head for. I think that would make it much more interesting.

On the equipment screen, I feel like it would be simpler to understand if you could just scroll through the equipment (with descriptions beside them) and select the item you want. Having to select an item and then click another button to actually equip it seems overly complicated and a bit unusual.

I can pick up items in chests but can't seem to equip the new one until after I die. Is there a way to do it during the game?

It would be nice if there was a good way to know approximately how tough enemies are (maybe color-coding?). I got absolutely destroyed by a slime/blob creature that I never expected to do so much damage.

"people who used to play video games a lot but now do not have time to play it as much" - In that case, I think you really need some challenge in the game. Short levels are good, but I imagine that people who used to play video games will want to feel like they've actually accomplished something. You may also want to modify the title because of that, since it comes across (at least, to me) like the name of a game for casual, "non-gamers".

[returnONE]

Actually I disagree with what you said about the stairs. Sometimes it's a matter of life or death when you choose what stair to start. You have to plan if you need the potions right at the start of the floor, or if it's better to heal all the lost health right before going to the next floor. It also gets more or less important depending on the equipment you are wearing on.

The equipment screen is really something that we are still figuring out. It seemed simple at first, but it's getting kinda hard. We want it to be simple to compare, but also simple to scroll. I'll try out your suggestion.

Yes, today you can't equip equipments right when you pick them. We thought in giving the player the choice to change the equipment right when he picks it up.

The toughness of the enemies is something that we wanted players to learn by experience. We also give a tip by the order that enemies are presented.

The game will be balanced to give the players some challenge, we are aware of that.

The name is meant to be more funny than casual. The game is going to have more humoristical points to make it clear.

[ryansumo]

I think the stair issue could be easily solved by having some sort of indicator drawing attention to them.  It could be as simple as having the stairs glow.  Or since you have interstitials where the character pops out and has dialogue, it should be easy enough on a players first try at the game for the character to pop out and say "hmm...which stairs should I pick?

I found the boss minigame a little confusing, with some mixed visual metaphors.  Green would seem to indicate "good" or "strong".  However with mechanics like this usually the length of the color also dictates how "strong" an attack is.  So the shorter the color length (in this case the red part is the shortest) usually sugests that it is harder to select and therefore must be better.  So I spent the first few turns aiming for the red bar before noticing I was dying pretty quickly and going for green instead.  I think if you switched colors this would be so much clearer.  Also for the boss battle a lifebar for the boss would be practical, as I never knew if I was hitting him properly.

Otherwise, I like the minimalist aesthetic overall!

[Quicksand-S]

Actually I disagree with what you said about the stairs. Sometimes it's a matter of life or death when you choose what stair to start.

All right. I'll just assume that I didn't play long enough to get to that part. If I remember right, I reached the sixth floor without even trying to get potions, and when I did try I generally started every floor with basically full health.

On a related topic, have you considered letting the player choose from two starting points but not having the other staircase become the exit? You could instead have a separate exit (or more than one), which would require more thought/strategy from the player.

We thought in giving the player the choice to change the equipment right when he picks it up.

That sounds like a good idea. I like that it would, again, force players to think carefully because they can't swap things at will.

The toughness of the enemies is something that we wanted players to learn by experience. We also give a tip by the order that enemies are presented.

That makes sense. There just seemed to be a huge jump in the amount of damage done to me between enemies on the previous floor and the jelly/slime ones. Maybe that was my imagination. I didn't really notice a big difference in damage from other creatures so maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention.

[returnONE]

ryansumo, thanks a lot for the feedback!

The idea of a cutscene is great. We would solve the problem of presenting the character for the first time and explain about the stairs.

About the boss minigame, that bar today is just a placeholder that we quickly made. We are going to improve it and we're thinking of having different minigames for each boss.

Quicksand-S,
I think that putting another stair in the board is going to make it even easier because it would have more chances of the starting stairs being placed next to the exit.

Yeah, maybe you felt a sudden difference, but this balance was made to this 15 floors demo. I hope it gets better when I start to test the final balance.

[Quicksand-S]

I think that putting another stair in the board is going to make it even easier because it would have more chances of the starting stairs being placed next to the exit.

Does that mean the level generation is completely random, with no rules at all? For simplicity, I think what I'd do is split the level into nine (or some other number) equal squares and start the level generation by picking sections that are at least one space apart. Then I'd randomly place the staircases somewhere in each of those sections. That way, they're still randomized, but players won't get staircases right next to one another.

That said, there's something nice about levels that start that way. I felt the slight urge to take my chances and go grab gold even though I didn't have to.

[returnONE]

Does that mean the level generation is completely random, with no rules at all?

Haha! Yes. The stairs have no rule at all but granting that there will not be more or less than two in each floor. I like how it ends up relying a bit on luck and also makes you think of what would be the better way.

That said, there's something nice about levels that start that way. I felt the slight urge to take my chances and go grab gold even though I didn't have to.

It's really cool to hear that! On each floor start a choice is always presented to the player, to go get gold/potions/chest or to save health for the next floors. We are trying hard to make this decisions even more interesting while we balance the full game where you are going to have more objectives like getting better equipments, getting more gold to buy Pur Mananzas and other stuff, beating bosses, completing missions and some others still to be defined.
Thanks for the huge feedback, Quicksand-S. It's being really helpful. Have you beat the game already? There are 15 floors in this demo with a final boss.

[Quicksand-S]

Thanks for the huge feedback, Quicksand-S. It's being really helpful. Have you beat the game already? There are 15 floors in this demo with a final boss.

I stopped playing after building my first elevator. I just wasn't enjoying the game at all (Sorry).

I was trying to think about why I enjoy something like Desktop Dungeons (which is not the same but has some similar concepts). Maybe it's the feeling of exploring areas. In Desktop Dungeons, not only am I challenged but I'm also exploring the unknown, always striving to uncover more of the current map.

Maybe an option would be to have some rooms that contain forking paths, while most would be the way they are now. Even if it makes no real difference, it might feel like the player is making actual choices. Maybe that's your reward for beating a boss: The chance to choose where you go next.

[returnONE]

I stopped playing after building my first elevator. I just wasn't enjoying the game at all (Sorry).

You don't have to be sorry! I prefer to hear that than receiving false feedback that everything is great.

But haven't you felt the feeling of exploration by wondering what would be in the next floors? There's a progression of presenting new content on each floor that should be responsible by teasing the player on keeping curious about the next floors.

Also I don't see how path forking would be any different because the player won't know what he is choosing anyway.

[Quicksand-S]

But haven't you felt the feeling of exploration by wondering what would be in the next floors? There's a progression of presenting new content on each floor that should be responsible by teasing the player on keeping curious about the next floors.

Apart from sometimes encountering different enemy types, every floor feels about the same. I don't look forward to seeing the next level because I know that it won't be much different and will be equally random.

Also I don't see how path forking would be any different because the player won't know what he is choosing anyway.

I rewrote my idea a bunch of times and the final version apparently didn't include an explanation of what I meant. Oops. I imagine each potential exit in those forking areas being named (or maybe looking different, but names might be clearer). For example, maybe you'd pick between a "cave" floor and a "sewer" floor, each with slightly different enemies. If the enemies are sufficiently different from one another, in terms of how they act/react, then it could be a tricky decision for the player to make.

[returnONE]

Apart from sometimes encountering different enemy types, every floor feels about the same. I don't look forward to seeing the next level because I know that it won't be much different and will be equally random.

That would be a huge flaw if the caves doesn't succeed on making the player curious to keep him exploring. I don't know if the majority of the players will be kept engaged, or if the game really doesn't have a hook. I'll keep testing and keep an eye on that.

I imagine each potential exit in those forking areas being named (or maybe looking different, but names might be clearer). For example, maybe you'd pick between a "cave" floor and a "sewer" floor, each with slightly different enemies.

Yeah, this one is really something interesting. The choice can bring some variation.

Since this game was designed from scratch for mobile, I'm always reluctant on adding any unnecessary complexity. I think maybe that can also make the game seems boring when played on pc, where you already expect it to be more deep. Or maybe it is really just boring as hell.

[Quicksand-S]

Since this game was designed from scratch for mobile, I'm always reluctant on adding any unnecessary complexity. I think maybe that can also make the game seems boring when played on pc, where you already expect it to be more deep. Or maybe it is really just boring as hell.

It's understandable that you'd want to avoid adding too much complexity, but I personally don't think there's enough substance to the game at the moment and any small thing you can add to change that seems worth considering.

As a mobile game, it might be more enjoyable but any mobile game is automatically slightly engaging because people generally play them in otherwise boring situations (bus, washroom, bed, etc.). I think you've got the right idea, starting by making it fun on PC where the audience is likely a little more critical.

[returnONE]

It's understandable that you'd want to avoid adding too much complexity, but I personally don't think there's enough substance to the game at the moment and any small thing you can add to change that seems worth considering.

Yes I've got that the major feedback until now is that the core gameplay is repetitive.
I'm making a list of things to consider including but the biggest challenge is keeping the low complexity.
I've thought about:
- Common chests: there's a chance of getting gold, potion and instant spells;
- Instant spells: are instantly activated when found e.g. "kills the strongest monster at the floor";
- Rare chests: grants an equipment but requires a picklock minigame to be open;
- Traps: starts a minigame that gives you a reward if successfully solved, damages you otherwise;
- Creature effects: an effect is triggered after the creature is killed e.g. the beholder switch places almost everything at the floor;
- Shrines: buffer choices e.g. an instant healing or immunity against undead

These are some examples I think that wouldn't add complexity and could bring some variation to the core gameplay.

[Quicksand-S]

Common chests - I'm the sort of player that values strategy over randomness, so I'm not a huge fan of these but I imagine a lot of people would be.

Instant spells - These sound great because there's a nice cost-benefit decision to be made, assuming there are no really worthless spells.

Rare chests - These sound good to me.

Traps - Could be good, if they're powerful and visible. Players can determine if they want to risk the mini-game or go with the certainty of a little bit of damage from the monster.

Creature effects - Could be interesting, depending on the effects you come up with and how much players will be willing to deal with them.

Shrines - These sound great for the same reason as instant spells, although I hope they wouldn't be completely random (ie. It'd be nice to know at a glance, "That's a health shrine" and "That's a buff shrine").


One thing I noticed when playing before, that I forgot to mention, was that I kept picking up equipment I already had. Is there any point to that? Maybe it could be automatically sold for gold? It would be nice if it didn't happen so often, though.

[Beanallean]

So it seems that most people had difficulty figuring the stair choice out, but I had no difficulty because I've basically played this exact game before except this seems to take all of the strategy out of it. It's called Ernesto (which you can play here http://www.kongregate.com/games/danielben/ernesto-a-quick-rpg/).

And as I said above, all of the things that made Ernesto great are either not present or just done wrong. I never needed to think about which exit/entrance to choose because they were always so close together. And since you can take so many hits without dying, it makes the game pretty thoughtless and boring. Another thing that made Ernesto great was how you couldn't retrace your steps. If you wanted that treasure, you had to take risks. And I get that you're targeting the mobile audience, but every game does require SOME thought. Flappy bird might not be the most challenging game in terms of strategy, but it did require skill in your ability to play video games. This game doesn't have strategy or skill.

I feel like this game could work, but you really need to individualize yourself from Ernesto, because that's what I thought of the second I saw the screenshot. My recommendation, is to backtrack a little and make your game unique. Because after playing this, all I wanted to do was play Ernesto. Sorry for being super negative, but it's all meant to be constructive.  Good luck!