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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignHow can first-person horror games be improved on?
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Author Topic: How can first-person horror games be improved on?  (Read 4571 times)
The Translocator
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« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2014, 12:24:32 PM »

Just got it: The player is a vampire. The humans do insane things to vampires to kill them, which can be used to great effect.
Make the humans seem evil enough and you start to go crazy- are people really that bad that they want to kill me.
Mirrors don't reflect you- creepy. Other vampires won't be reflected either- so you can have a "more evil than you" vampire jump.

The fact that you're a vampire could be a plot twist, and a creepy one at that.


The gameplay could revolve around trying to keep all the humans from killing you in any way possible. At first you can just lock the doors, but then they start tearing down the doors, trying to burn your house, coming to stab you with a stake, destroying the roof so you get killed by the sunlight, etc. You would have to stay out of the sunlight during the day (day/night cycle) and although you're not evil it eventually becomes obvious you have to kill some of the humans to keep them from killing you. But this creates questions. You have to hide the bodies.
People could stand outside your house staring in at you at midnight. They could storm your house with torches and pitchforks. Kill your children.
People come to your house to try to find the bodies. You don't want to, but you kill them too. Slowly every human in the town comes to your house to investigate, and you can't let them know what you've done. You have to kill them all.

After they're all dead, you enter serious grief. You killed a whole town.
You know what happens next.
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TwistedJenius
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« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2014, 05:26:20 PM »

Don't let me go and make friends with the scary-looking monster. If I try, do something to stop me and make the threat real.

Just to clarify, are you saying that the problem is that the monsters don't always kill you when you try that, or is that not enough of a deterrent and you're asking for something else in addition to that? 
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ThemsAllTook
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« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2014, 12:10:13 PM »

Just to clarify, are you saying that the problem is that the monsters don't always kill you when you try that, or is that not enough of a deterrent and you're asking for something else in addition to that? 

Mostly that they don't always kill me, but just getting a "game over" screen wouldn't be entirely satisfying. Confusion might be the best tool to use in that situation... If I'm walking right up to your monster, maybe it needs to do something new that I don't understand to make me afraid of it again. Brainstorming here: Suppose when I touched the thing, I'd get teleported to some earlier part of the game and get to replay a little bit of it. Things are subtly different, and I might start getting the sense that something is wrong, but as soon as I realize it, BAM. The monster comes out of nowhere and I'm dead. Since you can't really do a jump scare when the scary thing is already in your face, the purpose of this scenario would be to lull you back into a sense of security before ending it. Essentially a short hallucination before the inevitable death.

If I restart and try to touch it a second time in the same place, the game could remember that I've already done that and something different could happen, or maybe I wouldn't even get the chance to try. This would keep me from understanding the workings of the game, which as I mentioned before is a large part of keeping it scary.
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Snail_Man
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« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2014, 01:35:11 PM »

Disclaimer: I'm probably the last person who should be giving you advice, seeing as I don't play horror games, and have next-to-no threshold for horror. Once an unexpected jump scare genuinely kept me from using my computer at night for a week. However...

For me, the epitome of horror is surreal horror. That is, to be genuinely afraid, but you're not sure why. There is no tangible threat, nothing explicitly creepy, and yet you're genuinely afraid. How to accomplish this, I've no idea. The La La Land games (Especially 4 and 5) somewhat evoke this feeling.

Just my 2¢.
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TwistedJenius
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« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2014, 04:03:57 PM »

@ThemsAllTook
Once again, thank you for the input on that! 
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« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2014, 01:57:12 PM »

I just stumbled upon an article about The Evil Within. Nice quote from Mikami-san:

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“I’m interested in vulnerable characters, in normal human beings,” says Mikami. “The horror experience is most scary when the player really isn’t sure whether their character is going to live or die – death and survival need to be on a constant see-saw. If there’s a situation where you’re not 100% sure that you can avoid or defeat the enemies, if you feel maybe there’s a chance you’ll make it – that’s where horror lies. Creating that situation is vital. Also, I don’t want to just stand there shooting dozens of enemies. Die! Die! Die! I don’t have the energy for that.”
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baconman
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« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2014, 01:49:01 PM »

1. Infinite hordes of enemies - but designed to PUSH THE PLAYER FORWARD, not be a brick wall in their way.

2. Scarce enough ammo where you have some margin of error, but are pressed to NOT kill everything at first movement.

3. Some creepy things that it pays to not trigger, and some kind of fair randomization so that it can pop up ANYWHERE, even somewhere new, every time you play the game, or reattempt a level.

4. One-hit player kills, no extra lives. NOTHING will keep you on the edge of your seat like always knowing you're one touch away from DEAD.

5. Startling traps. Traps with killing potential from being in too big a hurry or being careless; but not deliberately aimed AT the player - just something that if you're keeping at the right speed/pacing, will graze near the player without hitting them.

6. Some kind of underlying, psychologically creepy motive/narrative. It's not enough to be "jump scary," there has to be some deep, believable, disturbing mindset involved somehow. "Creepy" is not the same as "scary," and creepy is very underdone in the games market.
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« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2014, 02:11:36 PM »

1. Infinite hordes of enemies - but designed to PUSH THE PLAYER FORWARD, not be a brick wall in their way.

2. Scarce enough ammo where you have some margin of error, but are pressed to NOT kill everything at first movement.

6. Some kind of underlying, psychologically creepy motive/narrative. It's not enough to be "jump scary," there has to be some deep, believable, disturbing mindset involved somehow. "Creepy" is not the same as "scary," and creepy is very underdone in the games market.

have you played system shock 2?
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« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2014, 06:17:17 PM »

I just stumbled upon an article about The Evil Within. Nice quote from Mikami-san:

Quote
“I’m interested in vulnerable characters, in normal human beings,” says Mikami. “The horror experience is most scary when the player really isn’t sure whether their character is going to live or die – death and survival need to be on a constant see-saw. If there’s a situation where you’re not 100% sure that you can avoid or defeat the enemies, if you feel maybe there’s a chance you’ll make it – that’s where horror lies. Creating that situation is vital. Also, I don’t want to just stand there shooting dozens of enemies. Die! Die! Die! I don’t have the energy for that.”

That is indeed a good quote. I think you have to get the right blend of dying, if you die too often then an enemy ceases to be as scary and becomes more of an obstacle to overcome. However if you don't die enough then it becomes too easy and you know even if an area is worrisome you're probably going to make it out alright, there's no danger. I totally agree with Mikami's point about the see-saw of fear, you need to feel like when you DO evade danger, you've just made it out by the skin of your teeth. Lack of weapons always adds to the terror and helplessness, I've not had the chance to play Amnesia but I don't know if I even want to after hearing about the whole 'invisible monster chasing you through knee deep water' area, Jesus H Christ it sounds scary.
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« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2014, 11:38:51 AM »

I just deleted a post I wrote up suggesting that combat is always going to be a problem in horror games. That the obvious problem/solution/reward tempo of a combat heavy game seems pretty hard to ever be effective 'horror'.

Then I was thinking that the most impactful game for me in a 'horror' way was the original X-Com where listening to the creepy sounds during the aliens turn and the sudden reveal of a hiding alien was better than any proper horror game I've ever played. There is also the visceral "oh shit" of Creepers in Minecraft and the nervous tension of hearing the sounds echoing in a new cavern. So maybe just making your game sufficiently engaging and immersive ("just" hah not an easy thing) solves all the problems of gameplay subverting horror.

System Shock 2 was another good example and I think one of the few games where the goofy hobo simulator elements (having to dig through garbage for trinkets) actually work extremely well to make the horror more effective. You get immersed in the survival and resource management elements and when something jumps in the middle of that it is very jarring.

I think movies rely more on the setting and visual palette to make the horror work but for games no amount of creepy asylums, subways, etc are effecting if the player is removed and observing it without immersion. The problem isn't walking up to the monster and having it not react, but if the player is so removed and ambivalent about the game's environment that they decide to treat the monster like a prop I don't think you can save the situation by that point.

I think that's also why 'creepy' is so underdone. Creepy doesn't work unless you are monopolizing the player's attention in a way a lot of games fail to do.
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