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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralIndie developers and sleep schedule
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Lo-Fi
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« on: July 11, 2014, 10:51:55 PM »

Hey guys! I've got a question for you all.

I recently started working on my game full-time, and one of the biggest issues I've run into is developing a sleep schedule. Running a Kickstarter destroyed any sleep schedule I had, and I have yet to get it back on track. With college and other jobs, I had times I had to be places enforced by other people, but now I find myself having a hard time enforcing my own schedule for myself.

Alarms clocks don't really help, I just wake up and turn it off, then go back to sleep.

Any of you self-employed indies run into this problem before? Any tricks you can share?
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Blademasterbobo
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2014, 10:57:38 PM »

don't turn the alarm clock off or go back to sleep
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2014, 11:11:48 PM »

For me personally, tracking sleep on tictrac.com helps a lot. Example:

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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2014, 12:19:31 AM »

I've been feeling burnt out - like pretty hard lately.  I'm starting to come of the opinion that you should sleep as much as you can and take as much time as you need off.  I read that 90 minute uninterrupted sprints of work are the most productive one can maintain, and that roughly 3 of those (4 1/2 hours) is optimal for any given work day.  And taking a nap from 15-45 minutes can also increase your energy and be productive.  So yea, I think it's really easy to overwork yourself, I think most of us are just of that mindset, if you're not working you're wasting your time.  but that's a quick way to hating yourself and wishing you're dead. yea
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2014, 12:19:31 AM »

Go to sleep at a decent time, try and wake up at around the same time every morning and don't jump straight from the computer to bed, spend a little bit of time doing something less intense like reading a book.

That's what I've been doing and I'm feel much more rested but I still need to work on getting up at the same time most days.
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2014, 02:50:12 AM »

Today I woke up at 3:00 PM and I'm going to sleep in a few minutes at 7:00 AM. I'll spend the next week or two on a fucked up schedule. I want to go swimming in the mornings so I might try to wake up at a more normal time but I'm not going to stress myself out about it. I work full-time on my own game. I don't know if I have any advice. If you're going to work full-time on your own game and you're working remotely, it doesn't really matter when you do it. It's important to be able to coordinate with other people in real time but you can figure it out, especially if they're all over the world. Who knows, you might be on the same schedule as them.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 02:59:20 AM by Chef Boyardee » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2014, 02:58:07 AM »

i am usually awake overnight and sleep in the daylight hours (so as to minimize interruptions and noise from other people)
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2014, 03:44:52 AM »

i am usually awake overnight and sleep in the daylight hours (so as to minimize interruptions and noise from other people)

That's ideally how it would be for me as well, the nights are so calm and quiet while days are noisy and full of distractions. Hopefully one day I'll be able to do that.
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2014, 05:17:15 AM »

Move your alarm clock out of reach of your bed so you have to get up to turn it off.

Exercise regularly.

Go to bed at a consistent time.
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2014, 05:38:00 AM »

Thanks for posting this the whole topic has been really haunting me too the last few months. I started off sleeping from about 12 till 8am every night and that was really good then working till later and later everything went off the rails and now I sleep from 3am till whenever the fuck and I feel shit. What I have learnt though through talking to others as well seems to be if you find out how much sleep you need( for me 8hours is perfect and my friend said she runs on 7hours) then stick to that. Eating healthy the night before can make it easier in the morning too when you don't feel like your veins are made from syrup. I found eating lighter strong meals during the day and something lighter for dinner(like chicken salad) helps me sleep.

Oh and cheers I'm totally going to try out tictrac.com  Gomez
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2014, 05:39:47 AM »

Also might I suggest not expecting yourself to work as soon as you get out of bed. Have a shower and wake up then read the notes you made yourself the night before to start work at the same time knowing you got up at the right time to have time in between bed and work.  Gomez
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2014, 02:20:14 PM »

I have been having similar problems. The main thing that I do to get back on a sleep schedule ,is force my self to stop doing what I am doing at a specific time. I hit a stopping point, and just do something else.
Ether it be going for a walk or watching TV or any thing to get my mind off work or school. Because I find that by continuously working on something you wont want to stop, and you will want to keep finishing just one more thing,and so forth,and it will really mess your sleep schedule up.
Once you got in the habit of that go to sleep at a specific time,and just start waking up at a specific time to get your self back on track,and set more than one alarm if you can. That way if you turn one off the other one will go off, and it will force you to get up again. Hopefully some of this advice helps.
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« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2014, 03:39:04 PM »

I agree with what Gwartney21 said, when you are at that stage where you just want to keep doing one more thing you will often do it much better and faster if you sleep then get up and do it the next day
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« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2014, 04:14:54 PM »

One thing to that TheInternetsGirlfriend mentioned was the quality of your work is better when you sleep, rather than getting it done in one night at 3 in the morning. You will find that the next day when you do get sleep,your projects generally will suffer. So really in the long run its just never worth the rush of stuff if it can be helped.
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« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2014, 06:52:05 PM »

Leaving computer screens hours before bedtime is healthy for our sleep. I follow that and it seems to work for me. More time for books, music and relaxing thoughts. No more alarm clocks! Smiley

Anyway, do you guys sleep at noon time? I sleep 7 hours a night and it should be enough. But then as lunch is my main meal, I always feel too full to do anything. I end up sleeping for 1-2 extra hours  instead of a 30-min nap. I guess splitting main meals into many lighter ones should do the trick, anyone has any good ideas? Will 5 meals a day viable?
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« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2014, 08:15:56 PM »

i am usually awake overnight and sleep in the daylight hours (so as to minimize interruptions and noise from other people)

Hah, that's my case too. I tend to be more of a night person, period, my biological clock tends to lend itself to that. Also the advantage that it makes it easier for me to interact with Japanese people (who have their timezone exactly 12hs away from mine, literally half a day).

Screws me over when I need to do something outside though, since that needs to be done during daylight x_x
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« Reply #16 on: July 12, 2014, 10:00:05 PM »

The best thing I find to do is to give yourself a timed work schedule during the week and stick with it. For our game, we (there's just two of us) chose a starting time and kind of went with it from there. We gave ourselves a bare minimum of 7 hours to work each day with weekends off. Of course once in awhile things will come up and we'll work more than that or extra long days, but we tried to stick with a set schedule. We're 3 hours apart, so it was especially important to do that.

Of course if you have another job or work with people in other countries that can be a lot harder. I'm not a morning person at all and on the west coast, but 10am for me as a starting time (iti's 1pm for him) works out perfectly. I have time to get to the gym or go for a walk or whatever in the morning before coming online to work. We have a pretty good system in place that works for us. It'll be different for everyone, but just stick to a set time and set days and I think you could be more productive that way. Then give yourself "rewards" for sticking to it!
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« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2014, 07:23:03 AM »

I have been indie for the last 6 years (and worked at game studios for the 6 years before that), and the problem you cite here is a real one (and it is not only an indie problem).  But it is a beginner's problem imo. Your problem is a logical result of overworking yourself.
This is clear not only because you run a reversed schedule (which some people do) but because of your alarm clock anecdote (which I used to do, too).
The "secret" (imo) is a simple one.  But in practice it is also a difficult one you will have to teach yourself if you actually want to succeed. As follows:

1)Stop thinking of your day in terms of time.  Think of it in terms of energy.  You have x amount of energy in a given day, you must learn to recognize where you are at.  No one can teach you how to do this.  You just have to learn yourself.

2) Once you learn how to tell, you will start to get a feeling about it.  This is a big step because then you know what things to spend high energy time on.  For example, going grocery shopping takes a lot of energy for me.  I am very careful not to do it in the beginning of any day I intend to work, because the day will be shot (only low energy left). Learn how to optimize your energy - use your sharpest moments for work.  You will get a lot done in less time:
You can get more work done in 1 hour in high-energy than 4 hours at low-energy.

3)You will get a feeling at some point in the day when you are 'done'.  Most people starting out (especially recently out of school) just don't know how to tell, or think that ignoring the feeling means they are 'dedicated' or 'productive'.  In fact, it's a totally destructive pattern that makes it more difficult for you to be successful at all.  Maybe you will be ahead in the short run by working to the edge of your ability (and getting maybe 10% more productivity out of that day),  but if you do it as the regular course of daily events you will actually suffer huge productivity loss over time (because you won't have any high energy time at all).  And this is not just my opinion, there are studies that show this is true.

I also know your problem is overworking because I don't care if you are Rambo on crack, you can't work all day and night every day and actually be at high energy the whole time.  If you think of it for what it is (that is, truthfully) you will see that you are wasting time (and hence your life) working this way.  That is what helps me to stop - to be mindful of that fact.
Anyway I hope this helps.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 07:53:04 PM by dez » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2014, 05:35:42 PM »

I know this story all too well. I've always been a night owl (and frequently taken naps in the afternoon or evening), but I've been working on a game for the past year and my sleep schedule has just gotten pushed further and further away from nighttime. At some point, it seemed that I was more productive at night -- I think part of it has to do with the fact that things like checking facebook/email/internet/news stuff takes up more time during the day.

I've been up until the daylight hours a number of times, then slept until noon or so. A few weeks ago I didn't even go to bed until after 11am (it was a very busy week). I do think the advice in this thread is valuable. I've always found planning and actual, specific schedule to be very helpful. If I just say "I'm going to try to go to bed earlier tonight," I usually still wind up staying up later than I intend. If I just say "I'll try to work out a couple times this week," it winds up turning into "Hmmm...not today though." But if I say "Okay, tonight I'm going to bed at midnight" or "I'm going to work out Monday, Wednesday, and Friday afternoon," I'm much more likely to stick to it.

It's sort of like the alarm clock thing, actually. If I set an alarm, I'm pretty good about getting up when it goes off. If I don't, I'll usually just stay in bed until...I don't feel like lying down anymore (or can't get back to sleep). Of course, I usually only set an alarm if I have something I have to do by that time. I need to readjust my own schedule, so I think I'll take my own advice and try to get back to a regular sleep and exercise schedule.
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« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2014, 05:21:07 PM »

I have been indie for the last 6 years (and worked at game studios for the 6 years before that), and the problem you cite here is a real one (and it is not only an indie problem).  But it is a beginner's problem imo. Your problem is a logical result of overworking yourself.
This is clear not only because you run a reversed schedule (which some people do) but because of your alarm clock anecdote (which I used to do, too).
The "secret" (imo) is a simple one.  But in practice it is also a difficult one you will have to teach yourself if you actually want to succeed. As follows:

1)Stop thinking of your day in terms of time.  Think of it in terms of energy.  You have x amount of energy in a given day, you must learn to recognize where you are at.  No one can teach you how to do this.  You just have to learn yourself.

2) Once you learn how to tell, you will start to get a feeling about it.  This is a big step because then you know what things to spend high energy time on.  For example, going grocery shopping takes a lot of energy for me.  I am very careful not to do it in the beginning of any day I intend to work, because the day will be shot (only low energy left). Learn how to optimize your energy - use your sharpest moments for work.  You will get a lot done in less time:
You can get more work done in 1 hour in high-energy than 4 hours at low-energy.

3)You will get a feeling at some point in the day when you are 'done'.  Most people starting out (especially recently out of school) just don't know how to tell, or think that ignoring the feeling means they are 'dedicated' or 'productive'.  In fact, it's a totally destructive pattern that makes it more difficult for you to be successful at all.  Maybe you will be ahead in the short run by working to the edge of your ability (and getting maybe 10% more productivity out of that day),  but if you do it as the regular course of daily events you will actually suffer huge productivity loss over time (because you won't have any high energy time at all).  And this is not just my opinion, there are studies that show this is true.

I also know your problem is overworking because I don't care if you are Rambo on crack, you can't work all day and night every day and actually be at high energy the whole time.  If you think of it for what it is (that is, truthfully) you will see that you are wasting time (and hence your life) working this way.  That is what helps me to stop - to be mindful of that fact.
Anyway I hope this helps.



Hmmm, these are some really good points. During school (I went to school for game design), I would literally work at the campus until closing most nights. I think I kept my energy up though because I had to go to class every now and then, which gave me a good hour and a half to think and relax. I would also constantly be working on different assignments/projects, which gave me some variety. Huh. I wonder what I can use as a substitute for that.
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