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[OmniMuffin]

You don't have to find it enjoyable personally, but it has to try to be enjoyable. Some aspect of the game has to be fun to some people.

Exactly!

[Lucaz]

You don't have to find it enjoyable personally, but it has to try to be enjoyable. Some aspect of the game has to be fun to some people.

Are you saying games have to be enjoyable, or fun? 'Cause those aren't the same thing. Lots of games are enjoyable but not fun. I can enjoy Master of Orion or Civilization, but I don't think anyone will say they have fun with them. I mean enjoying something is like "That was good, I liked it", and fun is like "Haha, that was fun!".

[Marmaduke Slam]

You don't have to find it enjoyable personally, but it has to try to be enjoyable. Some aspect of the game has to be fun to some people.

What gives you the right to say what games should and should not have?

[Strong]

You don't have to find it enjoyable personally, but it has to try to be enjoyable. Some aspect of the game has to be fun to some people.

What gives you the right to say what games should and should not have?

The dictionary, under the definition of the word "game".

Don't misinterpret any of this as saying that I think certain games have more merits than others, because I don't. I just use the more literal translation of the word "game".

[Gnarf]

The dictionary, under the definition of the word "game".

Which definition? "Game" has several meanings.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/game

When we're talking about videogames, I'd say the most fitting one is:

[2.]a. A competitive activity or sport in which players contend with each other according to a set of rules: the game of basketball; the game of gin rummy.

[Marmaduke Slam]

You don't have to find it enjoyable personally, but it has to try to be enjoyable. Some aspect of the game has to be fun to some people.

What gives you the right to say what games should and should not have?

The dictionary, under the definition of the word "game".

Don't misinterpret any of this as saying that I think certain games have more merits than others, because I don't. I just use the more literal translation of the word "game".

My apologies then.  (Also for sounding rude)

But I don't agree with the idea that it has to fun for it to be a video game. If the only thing that differs between it and a "regular" game is the intention of the developer(s) (they don't aim to make it fun), then what is it?

When we're talking about videogames, I'd say the most fitting one is:

[2.]a. A competitive activity or sport in which players contend with each other according to a set of rules: the game of basketball; the game of gin rummy.

I don't think that really fits at all. There are many single player games and games that aren't played to be competitive, but moreso played for enjoyment (RPG's, say, aren't competitive).

[Gnarf]

In the last single player RPG I played, bunch of goblins tried to kill my party, but I totally wouldn't let them so I tried to kill them first. You could say we were competing against each other. In the last multiplayer RPG I played, we got to enter little arenas and compete against other players.

You still tend to play to win, no matter if your competition is human or not. And the games where you don't are often called non-games or toys or something.

[Jad]

Thus, you somehow need to change the definition so that the challenge and competition does not explicitely involve other players O:

I found this definition on the same page:

"6.  Informal
a. An active interest or pursuit, especially one involving competitive engagement or adherence to rules.

Oh well, I'm wrong, it seems. This seems to be the informal variant where you call non-games 'the game', etc.

Then if you are to follow the topmost definition on the page: "1.  An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime: party games; word games.", then they supposedly have to be entertaining/amusing

[Lucaz]

Considering game isn't a technical word, using a dictionary definition to decide what is a game and what isn't is quite unadequate and limiting.

[Jad]

Surely you lie! Language is not created by humans, it is created by dictionaries! (jadspam stops here. sorry)

[LaserBeing]

I just lost The Game.

[Gnarf]

Thus, you somehow need to change the definition so that the challenge and competition does not explicitely involve other players O:

Or consider the computer/game to be the other player(s). Or whatever.

I didn't really mean to say that it's the ultimate definition of "game" that sorts everything out. Just that that out of the ones on that particular site, that is the one that gets at the meaning of "game" in "videogame". That videogames are called games for the same reason that soccer and chess are called games, and not for the same reason that "a game of pretending" is called a game or for the same reason that some rabbit or something is called game.

[Anthony Flack]

I thought we were in the business of making interactive computer entertainment?

[Gnarf]

And a subset of that "we" are in the business of making computer games?

[Benza]

I just lost The Game.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


I just lost the game....

Personly I don't think this conversation is meta enough, I think we should really examine the merits of changing the spelling of fun to a less phoneticly correct phun could be used to differentiate diffrent kinds of fun or phun experienced while playing a video game.