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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignPuzzles
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Author Topic: Puzzles  (Read 1581 times)
The Translocator
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« on: July 24, 2014, 12:31:41 PM »

In a game that is mostly action but interspersed with puzzles that are not required to continue, how many puzzles should there be in a 1 hour span of time in a perfect world?
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Uykered
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2014, 04:57:50 PM »

Zero. I think videogames and games in general are stronger when they're focused and weaker when they're a collection of different activities.
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alvarop
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2014, 05:00:28 PM »

What type of rewards come with solving these optional puzzles?
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The Translocator
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2014, 07:03:21 PM »

The puzzles themselves are the reward, and they're not even directly mentioned in the game. I guess you could call them secret puzzles. Essentially you have to go looking for them to find them, but they don't help or impede progress in any way and you could play the whole game from start to finish, and see everything in it, and not know they exist.
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alvarop
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2014, 07:08:28 PM »

They the reward in what sense? There's an intrinsic pleasure in the puzzles themselves? How did you achieve such a thing?
I'm just feeling that if there is no reward, nothing to get out of it, they will simply feel out of place. If the player gets something : a nice experience, some lore, a collectible, then, the puzzles will be a cool find. If not, I don't see how they're rewarded to do "more work" for "nothing".
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The Translocator
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2014, 07:12:54 PM »

It's not necessarily "work", because they're a core aspect of the game, they're just not required to complete the game. And it's not "nothing", because the puzzles progress you through the game just in a different way.
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ThemsAllTook
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2014, 07:31:36 PM »

There's an intrinsic pleasure in the puzzles themselves? How did you achieve such a thing?

Is any aspect of any gameplay ever not designed to be intrinsically pleasurable, other than freemium paywalls?
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alvarop
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2014, 07:35:39 PM »

You're right ThemsAllTook.

I meant as in : they're not necessary for the main game, they're there because they're there + they're a secret. I just didn't understand *how* a secret "task" is a reward. Of course gameplay on itself is pleasurable and is a "reward". I'm not criticizing, I'm just trying to understand the logic behind this design idea.

In other words, my question is : What do these puzzles add to the game, apart from the puzzles themselves? Does it contribute into building a more enigmatic atmosphere, for example?
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The Translocator
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2014, 07:47:26 PM »

They bring question into existence, video games, glitches, sequence breaking, whether any other sections of the game are puzzles without you realizing, the linearity of metroidvanias, and such.
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alvarop
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2014, 07:52:45 PM »

Ok, then 0 per hour.
In all seriousness, though, there's no objective answer to your initial question. If you put 5 secrets per hour, they won't feel as secrets anymore. Put as many as you need while making them feel like they're a secret?

Keep this guy in mind  Ninja  and your game will be the next indie hit.
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SirNiko
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2014, 03:10:09 AM »

I would say spread them evenly across the game with as many amusing puzzles you can come up with. If your puzzles are repetitive or uninteresting use fewer (or none), if they're varied, or fun put in as many as you can while keeping them fun.

However, I'd also suggest splitting the puzzles up so that you collect them during the action stages, but don't solve them until later. In a theoretical game like Sonic the Hedgehog except where you uncover puzzles in odd corners of the world in addition to the regular play, it would break up the action too much to stop the adventure to solve each puzzle as you find it. Let the player collect the puzzles and then go solve them later at their leisure from the main menu or the hub world. That would be the ideal situation.

I like the idea of rewarding the player by finding new challenges like puzzles hidden in the landscape; that really appeals to me. Just remember that it won't make a mediocre game better, at best it'll be hiding a good game within a mediocre game. Make sure the main game is fun even without considering the puzzles (the golden rule of game design - if you would not do something without the reward, then it needs to be reconsidered).
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FranLesko
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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2014, 04:35:47 AM »

Play Transistor. The "puzzles" and how they were introduced felt like a challenge, didn't really brake the flow of the game and where somehow pleasurable. I don't remember the frequency though.
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glintycreative
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« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2014, 10:34:34 PM »

Some levels in Yoshi's Island have somewhat puzzle elements, and I think these puzzles are refreshing.
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SeptemberCrab
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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2014, 01:37:44 PM »

Good evening.

Are puzzles really important in your game? How much development time you plan to dedicate for puzzle features? Whats the state of core functionality of the game?

It's always good to sit down and evaluate if such features are really needed for game as a whole.

Also, from my experience, such "additional SIMPLE features" drain the time you are willing to commit to your current idea/project, without shear will. So make sure it counts.
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baconman
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« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2014, 06:30:15 AM »

I would say 5, period. Assuming they take 10-12 minutes to get to, and 1-2 minutes to solve correctly. But then, I would also be a dick and make them impossible to complete if you screwed up the wrong way; and only reward the player for completing all five of them. This way, they have a reason to repeat and master the core game attached. Definitely attach some kind of collectible e-penis to them, though; whether it's something that affects the core game or not.

You could also super-secret-final-final-boss with that shit, too.
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hammeron-art
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« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2014, 10:33:40 AM »

I don't know about you guys but I kept seeking for hidden areas in that Clastlevania for PSONE just for the pleasure of completing anything possible in the game and maybe get a different ending.
I'm also completed all the 6 different endings of Muramasa The Demon Blade just for the sake of see the completion of the stories (not counting the DLCs).

Anyway I kinda a lover of stories and those games are really fun to keep playing...
I wouldn't get upset without reward for this but for sure disappointed.
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