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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytestingCandlelight Demo - Looking for Feedback...
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Rodmanix
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« on: July 31, 2014, 06:46:17 PM »

Hey guys, I'm in the process of creating my first indie game.  It's a 2D platformer where you play as a candle trying to bring light back to a dark world.  I would really appreciate some honest feedback from you.  If you like it great but if you don't please let me know.  Just trying to make it as good as I can and any feedback from you would prove invaluable to me.



http://pixelmaverickgames.com/demo/

Thanks in advance,
Rod
Pixel Maverick Games
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michaelplzno
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2014, 02:31:24 AM »

Hello Rod,

Congratulations on your first game! I got about halfway through level 1 then I think I messed up by pushing a crate the wrong way:



Also, you might want to cut down the opening cut scene. It liked your studio's little animation but it might turn people off, and overall the pacing on the scene was a bit slow imo.
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Rodmanix
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2014, 07:20:39 AM »

Hey Michael,

Thanks for the reply and feedback.

I put the crate there because you just gained the ability to shoot fireballs.  Shooting fireballs allows you to set things in the game on fire such as grass, torches, crates, etc....  So as soon as you gain the ability to shoot you are presented with a crate.  The crate, when destroyed, also spawns more fireballs.

I never considered the opening animation being too long so thanks for mentioned that.

Btw, Don't Shoot Yourself looks interesting.  I'll give that a try.

Thanks,
Rod
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JayCrafton
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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2014, 08:02:32 AM »

I don't think the opening scene is too long, but I did get stuck at the same place the other guy did. Maybe it should be more apparent that the ability was learned. Also, please pm me if you ever need another sound guy on the team. The game so far is just excellent and I'd really like to work with you!
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Rodmanix
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2014, 06:04:44 PM »

Hey Jay,

First I listened to your stuff and it's very cool musically.  I'll put you on the list if you don't mind.  I think there are some possibilities in the future.

Your feedback about there needing to be more of an indication that an ability has been learned is very valid.  Thanks for taking the time to play and mentioning this.

Thanks,
Rod
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Vallar
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2014, 10:50:42 PM »

I played the game and I have to say the atmosphere it creates is something I really like. Along withe the graphics and the sound effects everything was really cool. However there are a few things that stood out to me as annoying/weird. Here are they in no particular order:

1- The logo was nice, but lingered too much at the end of it. After the swoosh thing finished it took 2-3 seconds and then it shifted to the next screen. I felt the screen also that had red eyes (think it is the "Present" screen) could have looked better. You did a good job with the logo, so I measured with that.

2- The intro video was really slow, would be better if it speed up a bit. But it was really good. I understood what is going on right away. Though the fog at certain points (at first scene and the large forest scene), you could see that you created it over a plane and rotated these planes at certain points (or at least it looked like that).

3- I didn't know the game had double jumping. I discovered it at the first location where you needed double jump. Don't know why you wouldn't add that to the tutorial since you hand held me from the beginning telling me the controls, why not do it for everything.

4- When I first saw the ice and it melted it was a really good move. I was glad to see the environment would react to me. But I was disappointed when I couldn't use "A" or melt the cubes (the ones that block the cave in). I understand that is for the use of fireballs but I didn't have them at the time and they looked exactly like the ice things that melt but denser so it broke the immersion for me. Perhaps change the visual cue on it to make it apparent (or include it in the tutorial as a "prologue" to acquiring the fire ball, something like "you'd need more power to destroy these" kind of thing).

5- The water that was below the first icicle monster wasn't something I grabbed on early. Had to die twice to notice that this actually water (at first I thought the monster killed me and when I returned to kill him, I died, then I noticed that there is water and it kills). Perhaps introduce the monster either a bit earlier or after the water.

6- Not sure if this is a bug or intended. I hit that icicle monster 3 times and it killed me (that is fine) but when I respawned I hit it once and it died. I am guessing you don't reset monsters HP when the player dies? Not sure if that is intended or not.

7- The fireball, I don't know how I got it and I didn't know that I can have fireballs. In fact it was pure coincidence that I found out I can shoot them. I went into some cave with lava, so first thing was go over the stairs and drop the crate (figured I'd float on it). But it fell through the lava. So I thought probably the bridge above the lava will take me to the other side, but I was blocked by the poles. I tried jumping, I died twice. I gave up. It is on my third time going back to the same location but ignoring that area and continuing on ahead that I noticed a tiny "D" next to my HP bar and the numbers. I hit "D" and voila, the fireballs.

8- Somethings didn't feel logical like that one tiny pole that stands in your way and you need to hop over it (before the destructible ice cubes).

9- You don't explain what are the uses of the stained glass pieces or what is the objective in the level. Do I get to light the 10 candles? Is that my objective? Do I collect all the glass? Do I light up those window thingies? This wasn't clear. Which bring the below point:

10- When reaching a place that required an Idol, I didn't know what is an Idol and I was able to take the item in the chest even though it said you need an idol and something about stained glass. The messages changed too quickly so I didn't know what happened in there.

11- Finding out what kills you and what doesn't by chance. That is the same with the double jump and other things. I don't mind finding out about something that kills me using trial and error. But there are those that dislike the theory and oppose it. Some player have no problems with that, others feel it is like "cheating" or unfair.

All in all, I really liked the game and it was quite interesting. You had me going there until I was locked up in some area talking about an idol. Since I couldn't solve the lava area thing (until I came here and read some comments), I gave up there. But I have to say it was a good game in general but needs some tweaks here and there.

Good luck and good work :D
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Rodmanix
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« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2014, 09:15:29 AM »

Hey Vallar,

Many thanks for taking the time to post this.  Lots of thoughtful feedback here.

1 - I plan on fixing this at some point.

2 - The story intro is something that I'll continue to iterate on.  Telling a story quickly is something that I have struggled with for some time now.  Basically, monster kills candles -> fails to kill one special candle -> special candle must find and light the other candles and figure out why the monster was killing candles in the first place.

3 - The jump mechanic used to be hold to jump higher.  After several playtests, I found that players always tried to press the button twice so I changed it to double jump with no variable height.  At the beginning of the game I show the button to jump and give you a single block to jump over, then right after that I give you 2 blocks to jump over hoping that players would experiment and press the button twice.

4 - I like the idea of making the ones that require the fireball look a bit different.  Great suggestion and easy fix.

5 - I agree here too.  I should introduce the ice with water first then the monster a bit after that.

6 - Correct enemy HP does not reset upon player death.

7 - Yea, the is something that I am trying to refine.  I used to have a pop-up that would appear and explain the whole system.  I am a big fan of letting players figure out things but maybe I went a bit too far on this on.  The plan is to show the button above the candle's head (like with all other hints) then have it move up to the top bar.

8 - This is bad design. I need a better visual for the post basically.  Maybe a fallen tree.  The reason I need this is because I don't want the player to be able to push the box to left.  If I put a wall there, the player can get the box stuck by pushing it all the way against the wall.  So I needed something that would prevent pushing it left but that would allow the player to still push it away from that something (currently post).  Hope that makes sense.

9 & 10 - This is really a hot topic for the game in general.  There are basically three things in the game, Torches, Idols, and Shards, listed in the order of importance.  Torches represent the main goal -> light all three and a door opens granting access to the candle you need to light to finish the level.  Idols represent a locked area in the game that is only accessible after a certain number are lit.  This area has the remaining idols that, when all lit, grant access to a chest (something that I think is going to change or completely go away).  Shards represent a simple collection mechanic at the moment.  The more you collect the greater your score.  They also serve as a cookie trail to guide the player in later levels.

11 - I really don't want the game to revolve around trial and error.  Basically anything that moves kills you or at least this is my intent.  If this is not clear then I still have more work to do, which I'm fine with.  :-)

Again, thanks for such detailed feedback.  It really helps me make decisions.

-Rod
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Vallar
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« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2014, 09:37:32 AM »

2- The story was really good. Nothing wrong with and it is quite clear, just needs some speed. You actually did it far better than my trials with non-story based games :D

3- Aha, I see what you mean with the double jump thing. To be honest, I am one of these people that tend to follow the "tone of the game". When I saw you giving me instructions of what to do when things popped up, I thought I'll be hand held with every new thing. Though arguably double jumping isn't technically new.

7- That is a rather good mechanic. If you can put some item or an interaction that happens at the time of acquiring then "D" appears as you mentioned above the character then floats to next to the bar... that'd be ace.

8- If I recall correctly there was a bridge before it? Why not create a point of no return here? Where the bridge itself collapses (like the other collapsing bridges) due to some tree falling and the tree lingers at the tip of the other side of the bridge (could be used later in levels too as a mechanic). Just an idea.

9- Ohh, well now that is something I didn't pick up on. In fact my understanding from the story was that the primary thing is to light the candles and I thought the glass was probably for power ups and finally the torches I lit in the temples were just secret areas. Your intro emphasized the candles and didn't show anything about the temples. I'd say make a scene around that, perhaps? Perhaps instead of 2x dark orb runs when it sees you, 1 of them about the temples.

11- Well it was clear with the icicle dude since I gathered ice is harmful by that time. But the wind at first wasn't obvious. I thought it might be just some fixture. Then when it damaged me I understood it is taboo.
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Rodmanix
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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2014, 12:36:29 PM »

Got a couple of changes based on feedback...

Fireball Hint
Button appears above candle after acquiring ability.


Odd Pole
Used to prevent player from pushing the box someplace they shouldn't.  Now is rubble form.


Breakable Ice
New visual for the ice that doesn't melt when close to it but instead needs to be destroyed with the fireball.
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Vallar
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« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2014, 06:18:05 PM »

I'd say with the pole remove it all together. Use the bridge's slope and make it steeper/90 degree angle block. That way it doesn't look odd. The pole wasn't odd as looks, but was in term of level design; something that was there in the middle of "nowhere" for no apparent reason (the box not being pushed far, isn't a reason).

The ice cubes look good. However some might feel they are indestructible indefinitely due to the rock bits. For me, I think it is good enough though.

The "D" thing is much, much better in all honesty. But why not have that box block the player's path in someway that the player can't dodge? And HAS to use the fireball to get through? That way it has a more of an impact. This kind of feel optional.

Well done with the update, that was fast. :D
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Rodmanix
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« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2014, 07:44:18 PM »

I'll be honest about the pole thing.  The push mechanic works by sending a projectile that that hits the box at the very top to get it to roll over, and it has a very small window for it to work.  So if the candle isn't on the same plane (y) as the box, he can't use it because the projectile misses the box.  If I put it on a slope, that mechanic breaks.  I guess I could redesign the way it works but...

I like the idea about forcing the player to use the fireball.  It's funny... in previous intro levels I actually had it in a room where the doors closed and you were forced to shoot to open the doors.  I need to do something similar here.
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Vallar
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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2014, 07:55:12 PM »

Ahh, I see what you mean. Nah, no need to redesign the mechanic for a simple thing like this. Perhaps have the bridge, stairs like slope leading off the bridge then a "fall in" like 1-2 cubes high and the rest of the level. That way you have the player "boxed-in" and nothing out of nowhere blocks the player's path.

Actually that doors thingy sounds like a pretty cool thing.
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Rodmanix
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« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2014, 02:26:06 PM »

Posted new demo with the above changes.  Check it out when you guys have time.

http://pixelmaverickgames.com/demo/

Thanks,
Rod
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JayCrafton
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« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2014, 07:05:23 PM »

Hey Jay,

First I listened to your stuff and it's very cool musically.  I'll put you on the list if you don't mind.  I think there are some possibilities in the future.

Your feedback about there needing to be more of an indication that an ability has been learned is very valid.  Thanks for taking the time to play and mentioning this.

Thanks,
Rod

No problem! I'd really like to see how this game progresses in the future. Also, thank you for taking the time to listen to my music. I would be very honoured to work on a game with you.
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Rodmanix
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« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2014, 09:04:55 PM »

Posted another update to the demo.  http://pixelmaverickgames.com/demo/

 - Chest removed because it was a half baked idea that really never made sense.
 - Added another shard piece (worth 5 shards) to replace the chest that is hidden in the locked area.
 - Removed camera zoom out when 'Burning' because it made it hard to see that the candle actually sprinted.  Now sprinted is hopefully more clear.
 - Fixed the score screen at the end of the level to account for the changes and added animated stars.
 - Redesigned the cathedral area so that you could see the candle that is locked inside.  Figured it was important to be able to see the unlit candle since it is the overall goal of the level.

Thanks,
Rod
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s-spooky g-g-ghosts
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« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2014, 04:12:54 AM »

First of all this is a cool game. It has that old school vibe. You have huge props from me for teaching the player about his abilities by environment, by forcing him to figure it out on his own. I might have missed something, but it took me a while to realize there was an actual health bar. It could resemble fire more, that would give a hint. But of course I know these are early stages of development. Keep going Hand Joystick
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Rodmanix
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« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2014, 07:31:21 PM »

Thanks for checking the game out s-spooky and thanks for the props about teaching the player.  I have spent a lot of time getting to this point.

Your comment about the health meter is right on!  I really need to refine these parts. My plan is to make it look like a candle that fills and drains.  I think making it vertical would also help.

-Rod
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Rodmanix
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« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2014, 07:44:18 PM »

Put up a new demo with some changes that I think will continue to give it more of a polished and visceral feel.

http://pixelmaverickgames.com/demo/

  • New HUD and visuals for it.
  • Glass collection replaced with wax collection.  Find the wax to keep the candle alive.
  • Yes, the candle burns down automatically now so make the journey with haste!
  • Candle now has a flip on the double jump.

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Rodmanix
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« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2014, 12:08:52 PM »

A new demo with revised HUD, in-game map, new animations, and lighting has been put up on the website.  Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

http://pixelmaverickgames.com/demo/

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Vallar
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« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2014, 03:07:12 AM »

I tried the game. I was surprised that you changed the level almost completely. Here is my feedback in no particular order:

1- When the first dark entity appears and the rocks are thrown at me, they roll over me and appears to "squish" me but nothing happens to me really. I didn't feel that it was quite realistic to do so, specially when that block that hit me, was blocking my path so I had to jump over it later.

2- There was this path underground, just before the first cloud with rain. I went down but the descend to get the third wax piece wasn't clear enough. I found it by chance (I don't mind that) but I didn't like that I couldn't see (or distinguish) the blocks that I should jump on to get back up, it was a jump-till-you-stand-on-higher-ground kind of game.

3- The area with the bombs was a bit confusing. I wasn't quite sure what I should do. But I am guessing this is a one time chance? Run through till the explosions happen and then grab that one candle at the top? Honestly when I tried it, I kept running but then suddenly I was thrown away to the candle. However, frantically trying to "evade" the explosion, I was pressing right and I fell off the tip of the platform that had the candle. I then saw the bomb on the right side, I hopped onto it and it lit. I jumped to avoid the explosion (and get thrown away again) but I died. When I respawned, I thought to try again but the bomb bridge was destroyed. So I just lit the candle and that was it.

4- The backtracking in the game is OK so far, but for me anymore will be a bit over the top (but that is my own opinion). So I might start adding some loops, where the player doesn't have to backtrack but it is there as optional if you know what do I mean.

5- Sometimes the foreground gets in the way of the level elements and it is hard to see -- one instance was at the area outside of the temple where there is wind and you had to hop to get to the other side. I wasn't able to see the spawning point clearly so I get damaged from it multiple times.

All in all, the level was really enjoyable and I liked it more than the previous ones. There are minor things mentioned above, but the whole experience feels fun and far better than before. You did a really good job. I still like the sounds and the atmosphere. Everything else is really nice. Just what is mentioned.

Well done and good luck :D
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