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nikki
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« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2014, 03:31:01 AM »

Isn't this basically what gamemaker drag&drop offers?
or multimedia fusion2 ?

you have some friendly mousedriven excellike sheet of interactions, and you can create all assets.

I suppose once you have your prototype figured out and would get a real programmer on board it's a relatively easy process for him/her to program it all.

Keep in mind though that your designs will be limited because you don't know what the technical possibilities/limitations will be. And good software is not planned out all in advance, it's grown more organically

So in the end I think it'll always be a better idea to just learn programming, and since you have ideas of what you would want to make you're a few steps ahead of the average programming student already.
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RealityShifter
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« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2014, 08:23:25 AM »

You need to understand programming logic to design a game. Even then during the coding process there will be bumps and changes. I fill like your method can be done, but with revision phases during coding.

Personally I find extreme programming( programming while designing ) extremely fulfilling artistically and suggest everyone try it. Your game/apps grow like an organism rather than traditional methods which feels like production line work.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 08:38:57 AM by RealityShifter » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2014, 08:33:15 AM »

Isn't this basically what gamemaker drag&drop offers?
or multimedia fusion2 ?

you have some friendly mousedriven excellike sheet of interactions, and you can create all assets.

I suppose once you have your prototype figured out and would get a real programmer on board it's a relatively easy process for him/her to program it all.

Keep in mind though that your designs will be limited because you don't know what the technical possibilities/limitations will be. And good software is not planned out all in advance, it's grown more organically

So in the end I think it'll always be a better idea to just learn programming, and since you have ideas of what you would want to make you're a few steps ahead of the average programming student already.

I feel like GM's drag n drop is still the same effort(probably more) than coding which is what Artifice Machine wants to avoid.

I wanted to elaborate on "good software is not planned out all in advance, it's grown more organically" Planning out software in such a way that makes growing it organically much easier, will make it great software. This refers to the design of the code rather than the design of the game itself though.
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« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2014, 01:19:39 PM »

find a team that does the programming and get hired for being very talented in art. Not everybody needs to be involved in everything in game development. But not being able to program even disqualifies you as a level designer, because many games require level scripting. So learn at least something.
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oodavid
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« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2014, 01:54:48 PM »

In all seriousness, and at the risk of besmirching my (limited) reputation, have you thought about outsourcing the code to another country with lower costs?
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« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2014, 03:55:24 AM »

Indie game development is very insular. Collaborations have to form organically or they won't work, even then someone might flake out and disappear. That's a very difficult thing to have happen when you mostly work alone at home. Every now and then I get an email or message about collaborating. I don't know these people and I have no reason to trust them. I politely turn them down. I've had too many failed collaborations.

I suppose that's why game jams exist. I suggest if you want to hook up with some other developers, attend some game jams. It wouldn't hurt to go to events like GDC either. You get to see people personally. Everyone gets to see how everyone else works, what their personalities are like. I'm not saying it's easy. For me personally, it would be extremely difficult because I have Asperger's Syndrome and I'd probably be older than anyone else there. However, if you're serious and want to find others to collaborate with, that's probably a better approach than a random post on TIGForums.

I'm an artist myself but I got tired of relying on someone else to code. I scaled back my ambitions and bought a copy of Construct 2 and learned that. It gave me a better understanding of what programmers do as well as the time and difficulty involved. It's also pretty awesome when I figure out how to do something I had a lot of trouble with. And I don't have to deal with anyone else.

TL;DR – You've had 15 posts on this forum since March. No one knows you and they aren't going to trust you not to drag them into months of work only to have you flake out and abandon it. Or worse.
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« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2014, 06:47:38 AM »

As mentioned before. Your method works for creating a solid gdd or game concept which you could try to pitch to someone (or the crowd) to get fundig for your game. But i would suggest to involve a coder as soon as possible because for asset creation its often very impprtant to define the engine/tec specs first and then start production. Otherwise you could end up converting or recreating all your sprites or animations (for exmpl.)
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Muz
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« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2014, 04:54:38 PM »

Rimworld did over a hundred prototypes before they started crowdfunding, changing things like the plot, gameplay, etc. Like they later decided not to implement oxygen in buildings, changed the game world to suit the gameplay, and so on. They're still experimenting a lot in alpha, based on feedback from players.

If you're doing something tried and tested, just consider modding instead?

Pretty much everything, from fundraising to hiring gets really easy once you have a functional prototype out.
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EasterlyArt
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« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2015, 05:25:57 AM »

At this point I feel like the answer has been given, but I'm going to chime in because I was in same position as you earlier in 2014. After some creative differences broke up the group I was a part of to create the game I was working on, I took the helm and pretty much became god just like in Sim city or Roller Coaster Tycoon.

Going mad with power, and not thinking clearly, I sought to create every asset that would be needed for the game prior to any programming would happen. Little by little I realized that was a horrible mistake, and even prompted me to get Unity, which unfortunately has collected more dust than my vinyl collection.

Here is where I shifted gears. You want creative control, but you need to also have flexibility. Create as solid of an outline for a game as you like, with as much story as you want, but leave any "finished assets" for later. Find some programmers, hopefully people who complement you and are on the same page as you, and start working on an early prototype. Be open to their suggestions and even changed you would like to make, that way you're not midway through production giving every animation three to four more frames, or doing a complete overhaul of the entire look.

I'm an artist, so I tend to be selfish and self-centered, but without any flexibility chances are nothing will happen and no game will ever be made.
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oodavid
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« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2015, 05:34:20 AM »

@EasterlyArt - very well put!

I still think the only way to do this gaming lark justice are to go full MVP and RERO. Sadly I think there's considerably more adoption of these acronymic workflows within the programming group rather than the graphics group.
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