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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessLet players vote on game direction during development
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Author Topic: Let players vote on game direction during development  (Read 1727 times)
damir__
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« on: September 09, 2014, 05:11:31 AM »

I think there are a lot of players that would love to be involved in game making process, and to have a chance to influence the gameplay.

I also realize that blindly taking requests and complying to them would probably make for a horrible game.

So my idea is to make a website on which the pre-order users could vote on a set of features I would define. But before anyone in the right mind would pay, there would need to be some kind of tech demo that would make people interested. A lot of times you see a tech-demo and people go nuts with ideas what it could become.

The interest could be low at beginning, but early adopters would have the chance to have a big influence on what the game would become, since there would not be a lot of voters.

So in the very first voting round, players could vote what type of game will be implemented, in the context of the tech demo, for instance:
-Fantasy RPG
-Fast-paced FPS
-Open-world sandbox

The type with most votes wins. After that, a basic gameplay would be implemented and there would be a downloadable alpha.
But there would still be further votes. Players would vote between which weapons would be implemented, what kind of enemies there would be and so on. For instance they could vote between a jetpack gear, or a melee weapon.

Of course, I would have to direct the features beforehand so only sensible ones would be up for voting. That way I would avoid having to implement features that would actually degrade the gameplay instead of augment it.

Each voting round could last couple of days or a week, and after it's done, new one would become immediately available. This, in combination of quickly releasing downloadable game with new winning feature implemented, would make sure players don't get bored and flee.

Do you think this is worth the trouble and would generate interest among players?

TLDR:

Make a tech demo that will become a game. Build a website on which players who pre-order can vote on pre-determined features or directions the game will take. While implementing the winning feature, put a next round of features up for voting. Release often to keep it hot.

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OnslaughtMike
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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2014, 07:57:03 AM »

I have always liked the idea of crowd sourcing game design. Like you, I feel if done right it can bring in users and possibly even interest from press sites since its not a common thing.

From a designers point of view I think its a bad idea to give them such broad choices as you suggested for the first choice. Smaller more target choices might be a better idea. I feel this for 2 reasons.

1. It will most likely cause the game to be all over the place and not a nice tight coherent product.
2. Large choices take a long time to implement causing the time between decisions or the result of a decision to take to long. People will be unhappy that they do not see the choices happening quick enough and loose interest.

I have a bit of personal experience with number 2. There was a small game that tried to do this from the very start allowing users to choose a few things per release. I was initially very interested but as releases got further apart I lost interest and now I can't even find it to link for you. As a game designer myself I understand things take time to implement. But  as a customer I moved onto other things.
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ink.inc
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2014, 08:00:53 AM »

dont
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joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2014, 08:15:02 AM »

This is an outrageously bad idea from both a dev and a player standpoint.

As a player, why would I invest in a game that other people are just going to change the direction of/ruin?

As a developer, why
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qwurp
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2014, 08:26:10 AM »

Other developers (from small indies to large/famous developers like David Perry) have attempted to do this. To my knowledge, none have ever been successful.

Make the game that you want to make. I know that's cliche but just like you could never attempt to have a crowd direct a movie, you could never ask a crowd to direct a game. Too many opinions, expectations goals... unrelated features and requests get voted in and you end up with a hash of conflicting features that were each submitted with totally different objectives in mind.
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Ziz
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2014, 08:51:45 AM »

For instance they could vote between a jetpack gear, or a melee weapon.



Except the very first poll about the game idea, I don't really see the benefits. Why not do the Worms attempt and put just everything into it, what comes to the mind of the game makers?
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Chris Koźmik
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 08:59:51 AM »

What for?

Besides, in my case I find it hard to squeeze feedback and ideas from the players Smiley It's not about allowing players to provide comments but about the unability of players to do so in sufficient quantity Smiley

Plus... sorry, players are not that imaginative and they will propose things they have seen in other games, so if you did your homework you already know what they will propose Smiley

Still, sometimes they hit the spot, so it's worth listening.
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rj
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2014, 02:56:31 PM »

in fucking shortest

dont

in short: you can't do this if you don't make sure you prototype the fuck out of every single votable decision tenfold. and why would you even do that?

all you're doing is asking for a headache in the end. you're going to be putting together something that, if you did well, would end up throwing away hours of work for no reason.

so: do not
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damir__
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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2014, 04:44:29 AM »

From a designers point of view I think its a bad idea to give them such broad choices as you suggested for the first choice. Smaller more target choices might be a better idea.

After some thought I agree with you here.  Toast Right

There was a small game that tried to do this from the very start allowing users to choose a few things per release. I was initially very interested but as releases got further apart I lost interest and now I can't even find it to link for you.

Do you think the game got any popularity boost because of allowing users to choose stuff? If they continued to release often, do you think the interest would stay, or did it exist only because of the initial "whoa, something new" factor?


This is an outrageously bad idea from both a dev and a player standpoint.

As a player, why would I invest in a game that other people are just going to change the direction of/ruin?

As a developer, why

As a developer, because publicity. It's hard to get and this is one way to get it.
As a player, because players want to be a part of it. Check out Minecraft forums and you'll see hundreds of "Notch, make this" threads.

Again, choices would be set-up by me, and would be sensible in the context of the game. No choice would ruin the game, but it would change certain aspects of it. And is that worse than pre-ordering a game you have no control over whatsoever, and in many cases don't even have a playable demo, but just some screenshots, trailers and promises?
Also, would GTA be ruined for you if instead of real estate market you had the ability to take over docks business and control drug flow into the country? What about skateboards instead of bicycles? Or if there were no airplanes and boats, but instead every car would have interior modeled so you could drive in 1st person?
Some of there choices are minor, some are not, but I'm positive you'd have your favorite to choose in every case.


Other developers (from small indies to large/famous developers like David Perry) have attempted to do this. To my knowledge, none have ever been successful.

Make the game that you want to make. I know that's cliche but just like you could never attempt to have a crowd direct a movie, you could never ask a crowd to direct a game. Too many opinions, expectations goals... unrelated features and requests get voted in and you end up with a hash of conflicting features that were each submitted with totally different objectives in mind.

If you have any links of those game, please share, I'd love to check them out. I'll check out David Perry. As the features would be directed by me, there would be no conflicts or gameplay degradations.

Except the very first poll about the game idea, I don't really see the benefits. Why not do the Worms attempt and put just everything into it, what comes to the mind of the game makers?

Because it takes time to implement features. Even more time to polish it. Devs cut features all the time due to time constraints. Why not let players choose between two features which one to have in game?


Plus... sorry, players are not that imaginative and they will propose things they have seen in other games, so if you did your homework you already know what they will propose Smiley

They would not have the option to propose anything, just to pick between features I would select.

in short: you can't do this if you don't make sure you prototype the fuck out of every single votable decision tenfold. and why would you even do that?

This is no different than implementing your idea into your game before you know if it'll actually work. You need to have at least some orientation if some feature would fit the game before actually implementing it, or you'll end up throwing out a lot of work before having a finished product. If you do have it, you will also be able to 'blindly' pick two features that would work.




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Müsta Klaki
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2014, 09:57:00 AM »

The time it takes to take a vote and wait days for the votes to build up you could just be putting both things in the game.

Also, players are stupid and don't know what they even want half of the time. Giving them the option to pick design choices is... really dumb.
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Muz
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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2014, 09:28:57 AM »

Check out how dwarf fortress does it, if you haven't. DF is basically community built. A lot of the voting mechanics were put into place by fans, so the creator doesn't waste time on it.

but my gut says don't bother.
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joe_eyemobi
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« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2014, 12:17:36 PM »

I agree with a lot of the folks above:  you can do this but it has to be tightly controlled.

If you've ever worked in any corporate project before, even with just one client (i.e. one company or even just a person), it is a complete f***ing nightmare  Shocked

People never really know what they want, will change their minds constantly, get distracted, sometimes refuse to engage.

So if you were to do this process with lots of people, you will drive yourself insane and never get the project done.

I think like what a few people have said above is best: create your project on your own, then when it is at a certain point, run polls and get feedback for certain features.   There are multiple considerations when dealing with people, e.g. budget, time, scope, etc... Letting any of these things get out of control will scuttle your project.
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RudyTheDev
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2014, 02:33:26 AM »

create your project on your own, then when it is at a certain point, run polls and get feedback for certain features.

Pretty much agree with this as well. Tell what the game is first and only ask for feedback after your audience has been filtered to those that want such a game. Then you at least have a chance that feedback will not average out into the most common generic features.
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Oggs
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« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2014, 02:21:57 PM »

As most everyone else has said, this is probably a Very Bad Idea. Design by Committee usually is. Precise and targeted choices might be a way to mitigate that so if this is something you really want to do, that's the route I'd personally take.

Then again, your idea made me think of using this as a social experiment or demonstration similar to the premise behind Twitch Plays Pokemon. "What happens when a community of non-designers/non-developers make the decisions on what goes into the game?"
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gameloop.io
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« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2014, 08:15:05 AM »

Hi! Mathias from gameloop.io here. Since our platform seems relevant to the idea, I thought I should chip in.

With gameloop.io we're trying to offer a platform for game developers who want to involve the community early on in the development process and who are interested in player feedback. This of course is not for everyone, since many indie developers just want to build their game. But in the end people have to like it enough to buy it, so you can either rely on your own good taste, metrics, or simply ask players for their opinion.

For an example check out Graywalkers: Purgatory (https://gameloop.io/g/graywalkers-purgatory/), whose Kickstarter campaign just recently was successfully funded with nearly $50.000.

Gameloop.io does a lot of things, but the original concept revolves around ideas and features. It also assumes an early prototype in a playable state. Ideas can be posted by the developer themselves as well as the players. Developers can set voting thresholds indicating how many votes are required for an idea to be considered. When the developer feels it's time for a decision they can either reject the idea, if it just doesn't fit with the game's concept, or turn it into a "feature". Features on gameloop.io are used to keep track of game functions that are planned, in development or already have been implemented. Additionally, we allow you to optionally start a "micro crowdfunding" campaign where you can attempt to collect the funds necessary to implement the feature specifically. If enough players are interested and willing to fund it, you can build it.

On top of that we offer a host of other functions aiding the community between players and developers, such as comments, forums, polls, devlogs and issue tracking.

In conclusion, if you want to let players vote on the game direction during development, maybe check out https://gameloop.io. Smiley
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SundownKid
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« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2014, 10:46:07 PM »

It sounds like a pointless endeavor to me - I mean, you have no way of knowing whether your voters actually represent the majority of people who will buy your game. The voters might vote for the game to have tanks, but it could be overall more popular with planes. Better to just follow your own vision then do this unnecessarily time consuming method that doesn't really accomplish much. Plus, people will accept anything so long as it's fun and engaging.
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