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[starsrift]

It sounds live we have very similar lives.
Right now I wish I could just do what my brain knows is the wise thing to do without needing insane amounts of energy to push through the lethargy of depression.
Anyway, I hope we get better soon.

I was diagnosed nearly 20 years ago, ain't getting better. Just times when I think I'm okay, and times, sometimes just parts of a day, when I actually am.
Drugs work for some folks, if that's a thing that does the job for you, do it by all means. Not an experience I personally care to repeat. Everyone's just a bit different.

Thank you for the kind thoughts.

Starsrift, were you the guy who slept like 5 hours a day or was that someone else?

Anyways, (hug)

Well, that could certainly describe me, but I think you're thinking of someone else.
Thank you.

[gimymblert]

story of my life 

[Müsta Klaki]

Hey Mittens if it makes you feel any better Kingdoms Rise is one of the most polished and professional indie games I've ever played :/

And stars, I think I've got the same thing sort of... I completely cut ties with my friends, even one who was my friend since birth. I just stopped caring about friends. I don't get it. I'm not terribly unhappy, I just know that it's not really normal and it feels strange.

[JWK5]

Anybody familiar with post-concussion syndrome? I could use some tips for dealing with it right about now.

Long story short 2 weeks ago I cracked my head on the overhang of my garage and knocked myself stupid, went to the hospital a day later because my brain felt like it was going to explode and I was having memory problems and confusion, and also because I was afraid I may have fucked up my spinal fusion. Fortunately the hardware in my neck is still good (even though the surgery itself fucked up surrounding nerves and muscles), but they diagnosed me with post-concussion syndrome and I have to go see a neurologist.

The thing is I've had non-stop headaches for two weeks and nothing is helping. I am not sleeping right, I get tunnel vision, dizziness, confusion, my short term memory keeps playing tricks on me (I remember things that didn't happen but I think they happened because I intended to do them or I forget things that did happen just moments before). I've been irritable which I am sure is a blast for everyone around me and makes me feel like an asshole. Basically it is a whole load of suck that the doctors said could persist for weeks to months to a year or more.

I've scoured the net for some remedies or tips but nothing works, so any suggestions would be appreciated.   

[Carrion]

God, depression is so insidious.

I think I've got a handle on it. I'm okay. I'm certainly not thinking of suicide. Haven't in years. I'm trucking along, I'm okay... Aren't I?

I can't tell. Flat affect; I rarely feel anything. But I'm okay, I'm surviving. Doing stuff?
Not really. I'm not doing anything. I'm only surviving.

I withdraw from people around me. They don't make me feel anything, and they don't share my interests except in areas where I'm so knowledgeable I can't help but talk down to them. They bore me to death.
I don't even care anymore - except when someone wants to spend some time with me. I don't want to. I'm losing more and more interest in the world around me. I'm drinking too much, sometimes a fifth a day. Sober up for work, but that's it. I gain 60 lbs.

I still think I'm okay.

I start to feel something, maybe something needs to change. But I don't know what. And the lassitude, it's a killer. Relationships are the easiest things to let go of, because you just have to stop trying. That's all it takes. I wind up burning a couple relationships with some wonderful people, because I couldn't give enough of a fuck to work with them.

But depression's insidious. I still think I'm okay. Maybe, I just need a change. A new job, new something. Start doing new things, whenever I've got the energy. But nothing changes.

Then I hit that rock bottom again, that moment when life seems like a waste of time I shouldn't bother with, and I realize - that fucker, depression, that fucker's gotten me again, and kept me on the take for a few years now.
Goddamnit, and fuck. Fuckityfuckfuck.

Then I realize it's okay. It's just my brain chemistry fucking with me. I've got a handle on it now. I'll keep trucking along. I'm okay, aren't I?
I can't tell. Flat affect.

(hug)(hug)(hug)(hug)(hug)(hug)(hug)(hug)(hug)(hug)(hug)(hug)(hug)(hug)

[helena32]

A'ight, this thread is an indie support group / make up (out?) thread. Basically, whenever you're feeling down, this thread should be the beacon of light that guides your way out of the dark depressing times.



Any negative energy on this thread will be converted into flowery happiness, to the dismay of some.

humanhugs Guert
You've been through a rough time, man. Keep truckin!

humanhugs Haowan
We've exchanged some nasty shit, but its all water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. I propose we get drunk together one of these days and "see what happens".

humanhugs Phil Fish
Your game looks awesome, dude.

humanhugs Bezzy
Keep up the fight, man!

humanhugs Tim W.
You know you I love you. I'm still waiting for your phone call!

Wow! I just became a member and the first thread I opened is this one! It sure made my day!

[JWK5]

It sounds live we have very similar lives.
Right now I wish I could just do what my brain knows is the wise thing to do without needing insane amounts of energy to push through the lethargy of depression.
Anyway, I hope we get better soon.

My personal theory is that depression usually comes as a result of feeling trapped in some situation, circumstance, or condition. Look at what depression is trying to get your body to do, it is trying to force you to rest and conserve energy. All of that rumination that comes with depression is your brain taking that energy normally put towards physical activity and is putting it towards mentally sorting out some solution to the trap you are in.

The quickest way out of a depression funk that I have found is to lay down for a bit (let my body do the resting it wants to do) and in that time period sort out why and where I am feeling trapped, and at least one proactive step I can take towards alleviating that (this keeps me from getting trapped in an endless "rumination loop"). Sometimes the situation is inescapable (a loved one has died, for example, there is no changing that) but there is always at least one positive thing I can do to keep my mind from wandering back into rumination (for example, write about who they were and the impact they had on my life).



Another thing that helps is staying hydrated. It is real easy to forget to drink enough water when you are feeling down, and if you look at the symptoms of dehydration you can see that it can really exacerbate things (especially the fatigue, headaches, and diziness). A good link to read is: Dehydration Influences Mood, Cognition

If you are not vegan (or don't have some aversion to eggs), eating eggs is another thing that tends to help get me out of the funk (especially the fatigue). Depression plays hell with your appetite, eggs always keep me from going down that slippery slope. A good read: Scrambled Eggs & Depression



Anyways, I hope this helps.

[Dacke]

I think you need to be careful with that kind of "personal theory" advice. Lots of research has gone in to depression and it's definitely more complex than that. A good place to start if you want to learn about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mood_disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_(mood)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_(differential_diagnoses)

There are things that can help with mood problems. Exercise and talking are perhaps two of the most important ones. Depending on the problem, it can also help to manage other factors like stress, sleep, diet, medication, routines, hydration, fun, social interactions etc.

The hydration recommendation isn't necessarily bad, but as far as I can tell it doesn't seem to be an important factor in long term depression unless you are constantly dehydrated.

The egg recommendation is based on "natural healers" (aka complete bullshit). Eggs are actually one of the most unhealthy foods you can eat, being linked to cardiovascular disease, cancer and higher all-cause-mortality. Sample study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18400720

[JWK5]

That is why I advise it as "personal theory" (and of course, there are multiple causes of depression). In other words it is something to try if nothing else seems to be working.



Chronic dehydration is a big problem, primarily in the US where we drink a lot of caffeine and other diuretics. Taking care of your health (eating right, exercising, staying hydrated) could potentially solve one of the problems contributing to a depression. So again, it is something to try if nothing else seems to be working.

A solid body of research shows that for most people, cholesterol in food has a much smaller effect on blood levels of total cholesterol and harmful LDL cholesterol than does the mix of fats in the diet. Recent research has shown that moderate egg consumption—up to one a day—does not increase heart disease risk in healthy individuals (1, 2) and can be part of a healthy diet.

Related to the link you posted: Egg consumption in relation to cardiovascular disease and mortality: the story gets more complex

We are told that, because egg intake values at 2 y were similar to those at baseline, data at 2 y were substituted for baseline data in the 113 participants without baseline data. One would assume that the overall lifestyle of subjects with higher egg consumption would have predicted more CVD. That is, the physicians with higher egg intake were older, smoked more cigarettes, were less physically active, ate breakfast cereal less often, and had a higher prevalence of hypertension and diabetes than did those with lower egg intake.

And from the link you posted:

CONCLUSION: Infrequent egg consumption does not seem to influence the risk of CVD in male physicians. In addition, egg consumption was positively related to mortality, more strongly so in diabetic subjects, in the study population.

Anything done excessively can be potentially harmful. For me, eating eggs when I am going through a bad bout of depression helps. So again, it is something to try if nothing else seems to be working.

[Dacke]

The criticism of the study is valid. But this shouldn't be understood as the study being completely wrong, just that it (on its own) is insufficient. Nutrition science is really difficult and you'll never find a perfect study on anything, the best you can do is to weigh the evidence over time. Luckily there are plenty of other studies, for example this meta-study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23643053

It's notoriously difficult to measure long term effects of different foods. Which is why you're unlikely to find any statistically significant effect of infrequent consumption of anything. Even if the effect actually is there and is additive with other risks. For eggs, the long term cumulative effects can be seen in studies on cholesterol.

The point here is that, given our best scientific understanding, eggs are unhealthy or (in the best case) neutral in small amounts. Which is why they shouldn't be promoted as a healthy alternative. The same goes for, say, fried foods or sugar -- which make some people happier short-term but seem to have adverse long-term effects.

But if you're just looking for a nice pick-me-up placebo there are plenty of options that also seem to have measurable positive health effects. Like cocoa, tea or coffee.

But this is pretty off-topic, so I'll probably drop this discussion now, at least in this thread.

[starsrift]

My personal theory is that depression usually comes as a result of feeling trapped in some situation, circumstance, or condition. Look at what depression is trying to get your body to do, it is trying to force you to rest and conserve energy. All of that rumination that comes with depression is your brain taking that energy normally put towards physical activity and is putting it towards mentally sorting out some solution to the trap you are in.

I understand where you're coming from, JWK5, and I'm glad that for most people, it's something like this.
In my case, it's a permanent chemical imbalance in my brain. Which can be temporarily corrected with drugs by artificially substituting the things that my body won't make for itself, but I don't feel comfortable - or safe - taking them, having since tried. I'm not psychotic, and I can generally recognize the associated hallucinations as hallucinations - and I'm utterly rational, which is why I was able to talk my way out of hospitalization.

I'm honestly not accustomed to talking about depression. It's just something I live with, it's a part of my life. That nobody, nobody else can deal with knowing about. People IRL, they get apologetic, or they say things like "I was depressed once, after my (close relative/friend) died, which is certainly similar and can cause a depression, but not entirely the same thing at all. Pity, I don't need or want. Apart from drugs, there is literally no 'getting better' from this affliction, as it's a neurochemical imbalance with a genetic basis. There is no bright side or happy normal. I'm not bipolar; I don't swing high and low. It's just always low, or lower. I don't mean to belittle anyone, or anyone else's pain. Folks can usually understand being sad, or being sad for a long time. But never being happy ever, that seems to be just impossible for folks to imagine - or perhaps not imagine, but realize. And even when you do... what do you say? Nothing, please. It's just part of me. I don't want special treatment.... all the time. Maybe once in a while.
I made a post here after coming back from a deep valley, and I feel strangely vulnerable about it, in a way I haven't before. But I do realize it's becoming more... socially acceptable... to talk about mental illness of all kinds.

If folks have questions, I'm willing to answer.

[Dacke]

Depression is fucking terrible. Hopefully they will come up with some medication that works better for you in the future.

It's just always low, or lower.

At least there is a difference. Even if you won't be able to achieve a reliable high, it may be worth doing stuff that will keep you higher than lower? Like.. I do think there are people who can deal, even if you've had bad experiences with people. They obviously won't be able to "fix" anything for you. But just being able to share can be really helpful. That's just my stupid Internet-advice anyway. Hugs.

[starsrift]

Depression is fucking terrible. Hopefully they will come up with some medication that works better for you in the future.

It's just always low, or lower.

At least there is a difference. Even if you won't be able to achieve a reliable high, it may be worth doing stuff that will keep you higher than lower?

I play a lot of computer games. Which is largely just an escape from reality, isn't it?

[Dacke]

Yeah, I also try escaping from reality when feeling low. It can be a really nice painkiller.

Do you at least have good moments in life? Like, even if I'm feeling low I can still have happy moments when watching a comedy or playing a good game.

Did you try medication for long? What felt wrong about it?

[starsrift]

Do you at least have good moments in life? Like, even if I'm feeling low I can still have happy moments when watching a comedy or playing a good game.

That's actually a really interesting question. I'm not quite sure how to explain it.
I watch comedy, stand up comedy quite a bit, actually. And I enjoy it, at least how I interpret enjoyment? But I never laugh or smile, again, because of flat affect. I mean, I've lived with this for a long time, and I generally know how to function in public. I can laugh, or smile, but I never feel it. If I'm watching these things alone, I don't. But I still like doing it.
That sounds maybe a little strange.

Did you try medication for long? What felt wrong about it?

The particular medicine I tried gave me panic attacks as a side effect, but beyond that, I'm simply not equipped to deal with it.

[Dacke]

Sure, that makes perfect sense to me. Sort of the difference between enjoyment and happiness. Has it always been like that? Have you ever felt the laughing kind of happiness?

Maybe with the right medication (+ perhaps therapy) you could become equipped to deal with it? Medication is incredibly tricky since it often makes things worse initially, sometimes has weird side effects and does different things to different people. I've had panic attacks, and yeah, I'd probably prefer to stay in a sad/detached state rather than deal with that. But maybe it would be a good idea to try again, testing some other medication? If you get it right now, you'd be able to reap the benefits for the rest of you life -- maybe worthwhile?

[JWK5]

I suffer from BPD (borderline personality disorder), and in my late teens to mid twenties things were so bad I became agoraphobic and could not leave my house at first, due the the anxiety, and then eventually not even my room. I had essentially put myself in solitary confinement and after a few years of this I started to hallucinate off and on and oscillate from days of no sleep to excessive periods of constant sleeping. Every time I thought I hit rock bottom I broke through and went lower, and the toll it took on my family was not much better. There were no ups or down, it was just years of down. The depression was crippling. For me too, there is a bodily imbalance (I don't know how permanent, but it has been consistent for the majority of my life).

Depression, Bipolar, BPD, etc. can take you through some dark territory but don't let it make you feel like things are hopeless, sometimes rough conditions are fertile grounds for creative growth (for me, creating things an art has always been an outlet). Learning and studying can help too, sometimes just trying to unravel the mystery of what is going on inside you can make you feel like you have a little more control over it. At the very least, there is always a possibility that your experience, your struggles, and where you may have learned to cope are the missing pieces of the puzzle that help someone else. I don't think anyone wants to suffer, but giving the suffering purpose can sometimes make it feel less like torture.

I don't pity you, but I do sympathize and I sincerely hope things get better for you one way or the other.

[cynicalsandel]

You're not alone. It's tough when people can't understand you. I have both depression and anxiety, and it makes it difficult to work. It gets pretty tiring hearing how "lazy" I am. Just gotta try and deal with it as best you can.

[gimymblert]

Eggs are good

[Carrion]

Life is hard and all I want to do is listen to Death Grips.