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[Daniel Pellicer]

Another point to consider, technology has allowed anyone with the right tools to be a "composer". How many of these so called composers understand orchestration or have actually written real sheet music for these instruments? Samples allow you to write anything and DAWs erase the need to understand notation or have your music performed by real people playing instruments.

I've even seen the effects of this in real life sessions. One session I played on in Nashville consisted of music entirely composed in a DAW and the midi data exported into sheet music. Firstly, there was no dynamics or articulation. Also, the music was completely unplayable. But it probably sounded ok in the Logic playback.

I dont see too much problem there. There are a lot of talented people in music who dont understand the theory of it but they also dont need it. A super good spanish guitar player called paco de lucia was invited to play once with a super good orchestra when he was around 40 He accepted but was surprised to find he had to deal with a sheet music. He didnt know how to read that. Finally he learned but it was not his ability to read music what made him a genius.

If a person has talent  and he writes something that sounds good in a daw and can be used in a videogame then i thinkhe deserves to be called composer as well

[HopelessComposer]

If the person hiring can't tell the difference, then are you sure you want to work for them?

If the composer needs money, then yes, probably, hahah.
I'd guess there are a lot of composers out there because like someone else said, it's easier to pass off bad music to the general public than it is to pass off bad graphics. Even an idiot with no taste in music can tell when their character's head is shaped wrong.

I wish everyone out there understood and loved music, but it isn't the case, sadly. It's not the case with art, either, but again, it's easier to see when something is wrong than to hear it.

[Kyle Preston]

If the composer needs money, then yes, probably, hahah.

True, very true. Although there's definitely a limit here; some things are more important than money.  If getting that check requires me to be a 'yes man'  , no thanks.  But we all need to eat too, so.......

[Tyler]

I'm not necessarily saying the technology is a bad thing, but that it has removed the barrier to entry for composing. Imagine being a film composer in the 1950s and not understanding music notation or orchestration, it would be impossible.

Also a sad side effect of this is people hire composers based on their ability to navigate samples and sound manipulation rather than orchestration. My example being the many sessions where I've had to play completely unplayable, uncharacteristic music for my instrument because the music was generated from midi data in a DAW. With that being said, this is 2014 and understanding of those tools is extremely important. It may not even be necessary to know music notation (though I think it's really important), I just don't understand how you can continually write for a myriad of instruments that you don't even understand on an acoustic level or have never experienced live. This disconnect is really hurting composers when they try to get real musicians to play their music and is extremely frustrating. I can't tell you the number of times I've played someone's music that was completely over written, out of range, has no rests, no considerations of endurance or playability because it was played in from their midi keyboard into Logic.

"A lot of people, maybe not the average listener, but a lot of people I interact with can tell the difference, sonically speaking, between a John Williams recording with a live orchestra and a series of midi file-driven plugins assembled in a clever way."

I would hope so! But you'd be surprised how much digital samples are used in congruence with live orchestras. When the national tour of "Wicked" came through Nashville  and I was hired to play 1st trumpet. Well there was no 2nd trumpet. It was done all on a keyboard patch, in addition to the 2nd horn and 2nd trombone. I wonder if the audience could even tell the difference! Interesting discussion everyone.

[Jasmine]

I'm not necessarily saying the technology is a bad thing, but that it has removed the barrier to entry for composing. Imagine being a film composer in the 1950s and not understanding music notation or orchestration, it would be impossible.

I want to comment on this. The whole "orchestration" bit.

The difference between now and the 1950s is that, those of us without parents to fund and support us through college for composition/theory, or the fortunate to find (and pay!) viable players to play for us, would be unable to do what we are able to right at this moment. (Unless we saved up money to pursue a profession that guaranteed us 0 money back)

The reason we have so many people writing is because it's possible. It's possible for those less fortunate to take a step that we, otherwise, would be unable to pursue financially.

I made it to college on a teaching scholarship. My mother couldn't fund me, and I know a plethoraof people whose parents would rather give birth to the antichrist (mine included) than fund their child through college as a  "composer".

Everyone can learn, just like with theory -- You can go online, study, etc etc, but hands on experience is what does the trick. To be honest, a lot of composers know what it is they are looking for. They understand they want a string instrument in the upper register, low brass sustaining, but they may not know the terminology.

I mean, all orchestration involves is taking sounds and organizing them in a way that is manageable and visual. People forget that music came before writing. Kyle mentioned it - Music was preserved mainly through oral traditions since many people weren't literate. They didn't know how to read/write music, but they sure knew how to get a set of instruments together and make music.

There are a lot of people who, via virtual instruments, have the ability to get a big, grand sound. Of course, they lose the nuances that come with humans. Even so, that can be rectified with experience. They already hear it, you know? Now the challenge is applying it to theory.


So, yeah. Technology makes dreams possible! Albeit a lot of dreams, haha.

[ArnoldSavary]

I can't tell you the number of times I've played someone's music that was completely over written, out of range, has no rests, no considerations of endurance or playability because it was played in from their midi keyboard into Logic.

This is really surprising to me, because I imagined that the composers with enough funds to hire orchestras / session musicians were among the most professional, but what you describe is either a beginner's mistake, or laziness. Someone who uses virtual orchestras has to know the importance of note velocity, and note velocity alone is enough to fill up your score with dynamics, accents, crescendos etc. Also, most vsts limit the playable range to the register of the instrument. I can definitely understand what you said about having too many layers and writing unplayable things though. When you're on your keyboard it's easy to forget about the musicians and juste write what you think sounds good! But personally I always try to write my scores with humans in mind, not even because I think it might get played someday, but because I think it sounds more authentic that way - and from what I've seen it's a mindset many composers share.

The difference between now and the 1950s is that, those of us without parents to fund and support us through college for composition/theory, or the fortunate to find (and pay!) viable players to play for us, would be unable to do what we are able to right at this moment.

I thank the gods everyday for not being born too early for that exact reason. My life wouldn't be the same without modern music software technology!

[Kyle Preston]

The reason we have so many people writing is because it's possible. It's possible for those less fortunate to take a step that we, otherwise, would be unable to pursue financially.

This hit the nail on the head. The available technologies level the playing field for almost everyone and I am so grateful to be able to live in a time where I can type this message on a laptop with more computing power than what we sent Apollo 11 to the moon with. Having all of this capacity at our fingertips is amazing; it's like when Ben Franklin established the idea of the subscription library making it possible for many of us to reach a different plane of existence. One of our best inventions as a species imho. 
   

Since music is more akin to disposable boxers

Had no idea these were a thing.........that people buy........and then wear.

[AfroMonkey010]

Can I just say that as someone who has a ton of experience in music (reading, writing, producing, recording, mixing, performing) the industry has ALWAYS been about getting lucky and being in the right place at the right time. I would say 80-90% of the whole process is finding/negotiating the gig and 10-20% is actually delivering.

The professionals aren't worried because of course they can deliver and they are already embedded deeply into the industry and have their own agents or contacts to provide them with a steady stream of opportunities. The luckier college students such as myself are able to connect with other students via forums, college clubs or friends. If you don't have those kinds of contacts you're boned. The best you can do is post mock-ups for WIP game projects and hope that devs like your music.

So in the end, talent has almost nothing to do with what kind of music is being used in the industry. It's simply "whoever was available at the time" because not enough devs care about the quality of music or simply do not want to spend time searching for appropriate music.

I also want to add that money is not a factor in the music equation anymore. Any dev who needs music will ask his friend to do it for free, go onto the forums and find a desperate musician that will do anything because they NEED portfolio work, or buy it off a website online for twenty bucks (and that imo is not what music is about). We have no value anymore because there are so many of us and we have no way of making ourselves distinct because those of us who actually do deserve to be distinguished don't have any opportunities to prove ourselves.

Your only hope is to make music for theoretical games, or games that already have a composer but which you would make the music for anyway. Then keep the music for yourself and put it on soundcloud. That way you can build your own portfolio of music from projects that you enjoy and actually want to make, besides having to make music for devs that only want chiptunes or knockoff music.

/rant

[rj]

Can I just say that as someone who has a ton of experience in music (reading, writing, producing, recording, mixing, performing) the industry has ALWAYS been about getting lucky and being in the right place at the right time. I would say 80-90% of the whole process is finding/negotiating the gig and 10-20% is actually delivering.

pretty fucking much

this is why if you're focusing all your compositional work on games and game prospects without making a living off of it you're kind of an idiot. make a fucking album, dude. write music for yourself. do your own things etc

[Blitzwood]

There's a lot of great opinions here.

I do agree with AfroMonkey010 on the luck part. There are a lot of great talented artists but sometimes the one who gets the jobs is the one at the right place at the right time (and that dedicated himself to find the gig).

Anyway this is what we love to do and even if I actually have another job, I always consider music the 1st one.

[rmrzero4]

I'm chiming in a bit late here. A lot of the things said have been quite true. I will throw in my own personal opinion to the mix. I am graduating in a week after four years of school with a BFA in "Music Composition for Visual Media", which includes... everything that has picture. It's been quite an interesting ride being able to work with students who are also trying to make it in the arts, not just musicians but game developers, filmmakers, etc. and I think I have been pretty blessed to have gotten so much freedom to write how I want with them. Of course they try and ask me to sound like ______ but I give them my own interpretation of it AND the picture/level/whatever. As for the big industry, well... it appears that, after all this education, a lot of the guys (and gals, few as they are) that are doing this profession (in the states) have been doing it for a long time already, and they tend to concoct that style that we keep hearing of (his name has become somewhat a stigma in this thread it seems...). Or, this lucky "composer" knew someone, or has the money to know someone.

Indie games are a great place for someone like me to go to for extra work (I really wish I could say music is my main source of income and not have to worry about bills and loan repayment, and I'm not giving up; that is the ultimate goal), but even with a degree, I am already running into problems finding suitable work as a composer or orchestrator being a recent graduate, and I live in California. You'd think there'd be a lot, and there are... for people who have 10+ years in the industry. I got an internship under my belt and am applying to more, and I do wonder sometimes if what I'm doing is even doing anything apart from filling up my resume even more. Most of my peers are looking towards other directions away from music, I am literally one of the only ones that I know of that are continuing immediately after graduation. It's a bit sad...

Another problem I see happening in a lot of game music is the installation of middleware... okay, don't get me wrong, I am all for interactive music, but soundtracking a videogame is a dying art. A lot of people love thematic development and creativity and soul in the music, and I am one of them. However a lot of music for new titles has pads, synths, drones layered on top of another when the character enters another room, controlled by the middleware. I see that this is where AAA games are headed... I don't know how I feel about it to be honest. Music is giving way to sound design most of the time, save for a main theme at the title credits, if even that. It all depends on the genre though. Even battle scenes are utilizing combinations of short layered loops.

I'm beginning to find that today, film and game scores are becoming more and more alike, which is a shame. After all this time, I am now starting to lean towards sticking to Indie titles as possible avenues of exploration since I've been holding off without an opinion for so long now.

Here's the bright side though: as with anything, if you keep on going at it and hold confidence that your efforts are good, then how can you ever truly fail? Most people want instant money. It's a competitive field, so you can't expect much right away... you just need to work your way up, and keep doing it, or so I'd imagine.

[Lauchsuppe]

I'm beginning to find that today, film and game scores are becoming more and more alike, which is a shame. After all this time, I am now starting to lean towards sticking to Indie titles as possible avenues of exploration since I've been holding off without an opinion for so long now.

I feel like this was the trend for the last couple of years, while

Another problem I see happening in a lot of game music is the installation of middleware... okay, don't get me wrong, I am all for interactive music, but soundtracking a videogame is a dying art. A lot of people love thematic development and creativity and soul in the music, and I am one of them. However a lot of music for new titles has pads, synths, drones layered on top of another when the character enters another room, controlled by the middleware. I see that this is where AAA games are headed... I don't know how I feel about it to be honest. Music is giving way to sound design most of the time, save for a main theme at the title credits, if even that. It all depends on the genre though. Even battle scenes are utilizing combinations of short layered loops.

this is the new thing.

And while I would call the hollywood alike music composition a fad, I think the focus on sound design will actually be the thing for quite some time. It only seems natural - most of the time music compositions don't really add to the overall experience. They're just on top of the overall experience (no matter if dynamic or not). In the first place, game music became a thing just because the consoles and arcades were technically capable of playing tunes - not because they're so closely related.
I feel it's way more natural for a game to have less music in it than it has been like in the past decades (and instead, focus more on sound). Of course, some genres desperately need a music score as we have today and there will still be need for that in the future(classic jRPGs could probably never work without one, or typical arcade games). And it's always relevant for PR purposes. But I think that, in the future, sound design and music will merge even further and the gap between a (recognizable) music score and dynamic sound design will get smaller or will eventually become the same at many occasions. Imagine a Horror game (which traditionally have scores relying heavily on sound) where there would not simply be a soundtrack on top of the gameplay, but a soundtrack heavily intertwined with the ingame action. Where the music would alter dependant on how the player or her/his environment behaves. Where there would not be separate loops that might be triggered on certain events (like there is now), but small sequences and sounds that would make up the overall score. The same way a cluster of sounds within a field recording would generate something we can recognize as music.

Composed sound has already become popular in today's popmusic (HipHop, Techno, lots of the stuff played at clubs) so I figure people are ready for it. Just a matter of time until it takes over to videogames (which have always been a little lagging behind in terms of cultural trends as of now).

I'm not an industry professional or anything, just a student, so take it with a grain of salt.

[mscottweber]

Another problem I see happening in a lot of game music is the installation of middleware... okay, don't get me wrong, I am all for interactive music, but soundtracking a videogame is a dying art.

The way I look at it, middleware is opening the doors for games to actually have REAL soundtracks. 

Movie scores are so emotionally effective because every moment on the screen is perfectly represented by the music, the music changes when the mood changes, etc.  Game music could never do this in the past.  You had one track, with one basic feel to it, that would play during one part of the game.

Middleware makes it easy to layer in stems as the mood in the game changes, and those stems tend to be ambient droney type stuff because that's the easiest to make work in this fashion.  BUT Wwise and Fmod also have really advanced and smart ways of slicing the music vertically, allowing you to switch between all of the different sections of your piece (A,B, verse, chorus, etc) whenever the mood of the game calls for it and use various musically coherent transitions, intros and endings as well.

Really, middleware gives game audio professionals more room to do whatever they want sonicaly.  In no way does it restrict or deter one from choosing to score a game a certain way

[Pete301]

Another problem I see happening in a lot of game music is the installation of middleware... okay, don't get me wrong, I am all for interactive music, but soundtracking a videogame is a dying art.

The way I look at it, middleware is opening the doors for games to actually have REAL soundtracks. 

Movie scores are so emotionally effective because every moment on the screen is perfectly represented by the music, the music changes when the mood changes, etc. 

That's what gets me excited. Having the ability to extend the emotional response of a player throughout the game and not having to succumb to sharp changes that could take away from the experience.

I don't think that soundtracking a videogame is a dying art, it's just changing. Hopefully changing for the better, with the use of middleware composers can bond with the game more easily and will have more freedom in how they express scenes or areas of a game, instead of being disappointed with abrupt transitions in music. It will become a different approach to composing for media (compared to film).

And while I would call the hollywood alike music composition a fad, I think the focus on sound design will actually be the thing for quite some time. It only seems natural - most of the time music compositions don't really add to the overall experience.

I disagree with this, and it disheartens me that people can think that compositions don't add to the experience of a game. Music doesn't make a game on its own, but it definitely adds a lot to the experience.

One incredible example where music and art have been placed at the forefront of a game is vista points in Guild Wars 2. These places are where the player can complete a trivial platforming sequence to get to a great view of the scenery in the game. At the vista point a short panning shot of the artists, modellers, and texturists' work on the game is shown. To couple with this you get to hear some of Jeremy Soule's  great composition work. These little gems are dotted around the game and I think it was a fantastic way for the developers to pay some respect to the art and music departments. Also, you must collect these vista points in order to attain full completion of the game .

On another note, sound is an awesome way to add immersion or information to a game, but I don't see it replacing music. Occasionally you might find that sound or music can be placed in a game and either could give the same effect, but I think these instances are quite few.

[Lauchsuppe]

And while I would call the hollywood alike music composition a fad, I think the focus on sound design will actually be the thing for quite some time. It only seems natural - most of the time music compositions don't really add to the overall experience.

I disagree with this, and it disheartens me that people can think that compositions don't add to the experience of a game. Music doesn't make a game on its own, but it definitely adds a lot to the experience.

One incredible example where music and art have been placed at the forefront of a game is vista points in Guild Wars 2. These places are where the player can complete a trivial platforming sequence to get to a great view of the scenery in the game. At the vista point a short panning shot of the artists, modellers, and texturists' work on the game is shown. To couple with this you get to hear some of Jeremy Soule's  great composition work. These little gems are dotted around the game and I think it was a fantastic way for the developers to pay some respect to the art and music departments. Also, you must collect these vista points in order to attain full completion of the game .

On another note, sound is an awesome way to add immersion or information to a game, but I don't see it replacing music. Occasionally you might find that sound or music can be placed in a game and either could give the same effect, but I think these instances are quite few.

You shouldn't be disheartened; I think it's a legitimate point. Legitimate, because people ignoring music in games is a thing that happens fairly often.
Music definitely adds to the experience. But often, soundtracks add a kind of disconnected layer to the existing gameplay - because they're not intertwined with the actual gameplay enough. If it would really add to the actual gameplay (the reason why people play a game), then it wouldn't be common practice to just turn the music off and listen to something else instead.
I don't think that, in the context of videogames, soundtracks are supposed to shine on their own. But in many cases they do - and that's irritating at best, annoying at worst. And I'm not saying that the music pieces itself are bad; I'm just saying that often times they are replacable or even unneccessary in their respective context.

Because of evolving middleware, composers will be able to more and more integrate music into games instead of just layering music on top. And I'm totally looking forward to that! Also because, at the end of the day, this will make music in games way more relevant - possibly leading to more work to be done and thus more need for music people in the games industry. And more people appreciating audio in games. Improving middleware is the best that could happen to music in games.

Plus, these overbearing symphonic orchestrations would finally die.

[Sik]

People definitely not ignore music in games, but it needs to be good, otherwise even merely being decent will result in the player completely ignoring that it exists (unless it's so bad that it flips on the other end of the spectrum, see CrazyBus "theme"... er, better don't).

Also for the record, in the rare cases that I decide to play a game while listening to something, I don't just shut down the music, but the entire sound system (music, sound effects, voice acting, etc.) because I don't want absolutely anything to interfere with the music, so that'd be an argument that sound in general isn't important enough.

[Lauchsuppe]

People definitely not ignore music in games, but it needs to be good, otherwise even merely being decent will result in the player completely ignoring that it exists (unless it's so bad that it flips on the other end of the spectrum, see CrazyBus "theme"... er, better don't).

If music was an integer part of games, then why do almost all of today's games have the option to turn it off with just a single checkbox?

Of course there's people who like music in games. But that doesn't mean that game music now is all it could be.
Also, I think that whether the music in itself is "good" or not is secondary when it comes to a game. The more important part is how it fits the gameplay. And that's the part where most of the time potential is wasted. I mean, at the end of the day, both (being "good" music (as in well written) and being an integer part of the game) is important to make a good soundtrack. But if it had to come down to one thing, the more important thing would be how it enhances the gameplay.

Also for the record, in the rare cases that I decide to play a game while listening to something, I don't just shut down the music, but the entire sound system (music, sound effects, voice acting, etc.) because I don't want absolutely anything to interfere with the music, so that'd be an argument that sound in general isn't important enough.

Games are all about interaction. Usually, interaction in games is based on motion (there are a few exceptions of genres with hardly any motion such as visual novels or turn based strategy games). Motion in a digital environment is made up of animation, a physics simulation (the player character transforming its position e.g.) and sound.
Sound is also an integer part of the real world we live in. Our mind connects certain motions with sound; that's a natural process. That's why sound is a very important aspect in games.

[Daniel Pellicer]

People definitely not ignore music in games, but it needs to be good, otherwise even merely being decent will result in the player completely ignoring that it exists (unless it's so bad that it flips on the other end of the spectrum, see CrazyBus "theme"... er, better don't).

If music was an integer part of games, then why do almost all of today's games have the option to turn it off with just a single checkbox?

Of course there's people who like music in games. But that doesn't mean that game music now is all it could be.
Also, I think that whether the music in itself is "good" or not is secondary when it comes to a game. The more important part is how it fits the gameplay. And that's the part where most of the time potential is wasted. I mean, at the end of the day, both (being "good" music (as in well written) and being an integer part of the game) is important to make a good soundtrack. But if it had to come down to one thing, the more important thing would be how it enhances the gameplay.

Also for the record, in the rare cases that I decide to play a game while listening to something, I don't just shut down the music, but the entire sound system (music, sound effects, voice acting, etc.) because I don't want absolutely anything to interfere with the music, so that'd be an argument that sound in general isn't important enough.

Games are all about interaction. Usually, interaction in games is based on motion (there are a few exceptions of genres with hardly any motion such as visual novels or turn based strategy games). Motion in a digital environment is made up of animation, a physics simulation (the player character transforming its position e.g.) and sound.
Sound is also an integer part of the real world we live in. Our mind connects certain motions with sound; that's a natural process. That's why sound is a very important aspect in games.

Actually there are blind persons that play using only sound. But in this case its also like they are deactivating image with a checkbox. Is visual motion than so important or is the kinetic physical part actually more important?

[mscottweber]

Actually there are blind persons that play using only sound. But in this case its also like they are deactivating image with a checkbox. Is visual motion than so important or is the kinetic physical part actually more important?

I think the entire immersive experience is what's important: visual art/animation, sound/music, controller responsiveness/kinetic physical motion, etc.  And if any one element gets taken away then, ideally, that immersion should not fall apart.  Hopefully a blind person will be able to enjoy the game just as much as a deaf person, just as much as someone who can see AND hear, just as much as someone who is only spectating and not playing, and so forth.  The danger is when any one of those disciplines thinks its more important to the game than the others.

[Sik]

What gets me here is that this argument seems to be on the basis that because you can turn off the music it means the music is not integral enough to be deemed a minimum requirement, so the music must not be good enough (despite the fact there are several situations where you would want to turn off music even if you really enjoy the game's music).