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[Fun Infused Games]

Hello all,

I released my game VolChaos on a number of different platforms (XBLIG, Ouya, and PC). It is a 2D sidescrolling platformer.



I'm now working on an updated version for PlayStation 4. One of the critics I've received on the game from a few people is that I should "tighten" up the controls. I've unfortunately spent so much time with this game over the past few years that I'm used to the existing movement/controls and so to me, it does feel right.

I would love if some of you would be willing to spend some time with the game and let me know your thoughts on the controls and specifically how I could improve them. There are free demos for VolChaos on XBLIG and Ouya or you can download a free demo of the PC version from itch.io here: http://funinfusedgames.itch.io/volchaos. If anyone wants a free code for the Desura version, drop me a private message.

Thanks in advance!

Kris

[Quicksand-S]

For testing purposes, I think it's always nice if developers upload "portable" versions of their games (ie. no installer needed). That said, I still decided to try your game. I know you only asked about controls, but I'll give all the feedback I can think of because there are some other things that I consider "issues" with the game.

-The camera is a bit of an issue because it shows more behind the character than in front.

-The loading percentage text wasn't using the same font as the rest of the text in the game, which seemed strange.

-Why is the pixel-style text in the game all blurry?

-"Press Space or A" should probably use the image of the A button otherwise it seems like the keyboard letter.

-You have prompts everywhere, but no "Press A to start level" prompt. Actually, your prompts are really inconsistent, sometimes showing only 360 buttons and other times showing both options. There are a lot of other little things, like having to press Enter to respawn instead of the usual Spacebar that's used for everything else, and having to press X to leave the "Thanks for Playing Screen". Enter works almost everywhere, but doesn't work on the Quit screen.

-I hate it when games respond to controls when the game isn't even in focus.

-The levels seem pretty decent, although I hope they get a little more varied later on. I do think that you've found a very nice balance in terms of difficulty, making it easy to finish levels, slightly harder to get all the gems, and pretty tricky to beat expert levels.

-I really like the sprites and animation.

-The music was pretty good too.

-Rumble not available? I have a 360 pad plugged in.

Anyway, you asked about controls. On keyboard, I thought they were fine. At least, I didn't have any trouble with them. I would have liked it if I didn't have to constantly adjust my trajectory in the air, though. The character jumps really far and the levels are designed in such a way that the platforms are much closer together than his default jump distance. It might be a good idea to tweak the levels to actually put the character's speed to use by spreading platforms out more.       

With a gamepad, the controls are very much an issue. This game really needs a deadzone and maybe some analog support. When I'm playing, if I let go of the stick, my character almost always faces left (deadzone issue). It's also much more uncomfortable to do the "adjust trajectory" thing with a stick when there's no analog support.

If I'm in the menu and I just push my stick as lightly as I can, the menu selection switches around like crazy. One thing I generally do for menus is I'll add a slight delay for scrolling through options. If the user holds a button or holds the stick in a direction, a delay timer is set after every selection change. If the user actually presses a button or releases the stick, then the timer is unset so someone can quickly flip through menu items if they really want to. That should help a lot here.

[debugchicken]

Played it and the only problem I found was with edges, you need to implement a ghost jump.

A ghost jump is when you give about 50-100ms of time for the player to still be able to jump even if he already went off the edge. This is because of the input delay.

Also I see that the player takes a considerably ammount of time to reach max velocity (also known as low acceleration lol), but I guess this is on purpose, and it feels ok

Ps. Copying the indiana jones logo is not cool.

Edit:

Quicksand is right about the installer.

I couldn customize the buttons of my non-360-controller (*sob*).

[Gtoknu]

I think these articles by Mick West (Former programmer of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater series) on input lag, control responsiveness and ghost jumps might help you:

http://cowboyprogramming.com/2007/01/02/pushhing-buttons/
http://cowboyprogramming.com/2008/05/27/programming-responsiveness/
http://cowboyprogramming.com/2008/05/30/measuring-responsiveness-in-video-games/

[Fun Infused Games]

Quicksand - Thanks for all the feedback! I'll comment on a few of your thoughts but I definitely took it all in and appreciate it. I figured it was easiest to install with an installer but in the future if people prefer just the files, I don't see why I couldn't just have a .zip for those too.

-The camera is a bit of an issue because it shows more behind the character than in front.

Seems odd to me, the camera should be centered on the player (except when near the edges of the screen where the camera can go no further). I'll spend some time playing with the camera though and seeing if there is some way I can make it feel better.

-Why is the pixel-style text in the game all blurry?

What text are you seeing as blurry? What screen resolution is your computer set at? The only reason I can think of it being blurry is that your resolution is lower than 1280x720 which would cause downscaling and could lead to blurryness.

-You have prompts everywhere, but no "Press A to start level" prompt. Actually, your prompts are really inconsistent, sometimes showing only 360 buttons and other times showing both options. There are a lot of other little things, like having to press Enter to respawn instead of the usual Spacebar that's used for everything else, and having to press X to leave the "Thanks for Playing Screen". Enter works almost everywhere, but doesn't work on the Quit screen.

I've only displayed one button in the instances where the same button on the controller and keyboard are used. I guess maybe this isn't clear as I'd hoped. On the consoles where keyboard isn't used, its at least more consistent. I'm probably not going to rework the UI unless I get on Steam with this but it is more consistent on the console platforms.

The reason to press Enter to respawn was intentional. Originally I had space/jump which I agree is more standard, but I was running into lots of issues where someone tried to jump just after dieing and was restarting the level before they were ready to play. Based on what I was seeing, I feel like having respawn a different button is the right call.

-I hate it when games respond to controls when the game isn't even in focus.

Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean.

-The levels seem pretty decent, although I hope they get a little more varied later on.

Thanks. They do... and one of the things I plan to improve with the PS4 version is adding more variety too, visually as well as gameplay wise.

-Rumble not available? I have a 360 pad plugged in.

I should maybe just remove the rumble on/off menu option. I'm using MonoGame for VolChaos and it appears that rumble isn't currently implemented for PC controllers. Rumble works without any code changes on the consoles (Ouya, Xbox 360, PS4).

The character jumps really far and the levels are designed in such a way that the platforms are much closer together than his default jump distance. It might be a good idea to tweak the levels to actually put the character's speed to use by spreading platforms out more.

Good point... I'll keep this in mind as I redesign existing levels and add in new ones.

This game really needs a deadzone and maybe some analog support. When I'm playing, if I let go of the stick, my character almost always faces left (deadzone issue). It's also much more uncomfortable to do the "adjust trajectory" thing with a stick when there's no analog support.

This surprises me on two counts because there is a deadzone and there is analog support. The magnitude of the X-axis goes from -1 to 1 with a deadzone from -.25 to .25. I haven't ran into deadzone issues using this range before. I'll look at the curve of how quickly a player accelerates as they press the analog stick further... maybe it goes from 0 to 1 too quickly which could make it feel like it isn't truly analog.

[Fun Infused Games]

Played it and the only problem I found was with edges, you need to implement a ghost jump.

A ghost jump is when you give about 50-100ms of time for the player to still be able to jump even if he already went off the edge. This is because of the input delay.

Thanks for playing and sharing your thoughts. I read up on "ghost jumping" and it does seem like something I could add without too much work that would make the game feel better. Thanks for the suggestion.

I couldn customize the buttons of my non-360-controller (*sob*).

Hopefully the default settings weren't too bad! Maybe if I can get this on Steam that will be a feature I add but it's not in the cards right now.

[Fun Infused Games]

I think these articles by Mick West (Former programmer of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater series) on input lag, control responsiveness and ghost jumps might help you:

http://cowboyprogramming.com/2007/01/02/pushhing-buttons/
http://cowboyprogramming.com/2008/05/27/programming-responsiveness/
http://cowboyprogramming.com/2008/05/30/measuring-responsiveness-in-video-games/

Thanks for the links, those are helpful (especially the first link).

[Quicksand-S]

...the camera should be centered on the player (except when near the edges of the screen where the camera can go no further).

The screenshots on your game page actually show this quite well. Not one of them has the character centered. (ex. http://img.itch.io/aW1hZ2UvMTE3MTQvMzY3NTMucG5n/original/z6gJ%2B3.png) That's what I'm talking about. The character is a little over one sprite-width too far to the right.

What text are you seeing as blurry? What screen resolution is your computer set at?

It's 1920x1080 and it looks like this:

The main menu looks like that as well, but text like "Other Games" is fine.

I've only displayed one button in the instances where the same button on the controller and keyboard are used.

Yes, but that's one of strange parts. The very first prompt in the game seems to strongly suggest that Spacebar and the A button are the same, but as soon as you finish a level, the "A" prompt actually doesn't allow the spacebar and requires you to press the "A" on your keyboard instead. That's what I mean by inconsistency.

Based on what I was seeing, I feel like having respawn a different button is the right call.

That makes sense. I think the weird part was just that as far as I knew at that point, Enter wasn't used anywhere else. Later, I realized that I could use it in the menu as well, so it wasn't quite as weird.

-I hate it when games respond to controls when the game isn't even in focus.

Can you elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean.

I was typing my thoughts with the game open in the background and when I used the arrow keys to go and modify a word, my character moved even though I had the browser window, not the game, in focus. Even if it doesn't automatically pause when a player Alt-Tabs, it's probably a good idea to stop responding to input when the game isn't what the player is using at the moment.

This game really needs a deadzone and maybe some analog support. When I'm playing, if I let go of the stick, my character almost always faces left (deadzone issue). It's also much more uncomfortable to do the "adjust trajectory" thing with a stick when there's no analog support.

This surprises me on two counts because there is a deadzone and there is analog support. The magnitude of the X-axis goes from -1 to 1 with a deadzone from -.25 to .25. I haven't ran into deadzone issues using this range before. I'll look at the curve of how quickly a player accelerates as they press the analog stick further... maybe it goes from 0 to 1 too quickly which could make it feel like it isn't truly analog.

It sounds like you just implemented analog control differently from any other platform games I've played. When I push the stick halfway, I expect to move at half the speed, not accelerate at half the speed.

As for the deadzone, maybe my controller is just too worn out or something. Your deadzone is almost right for it, but not quite. If I remember right, I think I had a deadzone of 0.28 or something in my recent games. Ideally, there should be some way for players to configure the deadzone on their own (a config file, maybe?).

[Fun Infused Games]

The screenshots on your game page actually show this quite well. Not one of them has the character centered.

This is why I ask for external feedback, I'm so used to seeing that, that I didn't notice it! Fixed. Thanks.

The main menu looks like that as well, but text like "Other Games" is fine.

Gotcha. This is a problem w/ the font not scaling. When I created the graphics in a .png format, it looks fine, it looks less fine when drawing the string w/ the same font. I've been looking around some for a better 8-bit font for this and a few other reasons.

I was typing my thoughts with the game open in the background and when I used the arrow keys to go and modify a word, my character moved even though I had the browser window, not the game, in focus.

Ah... forgot you could do that. I'll fix that.

It sounds like you just implemented analog control differently from any other platform games I've played. When I push the stick halfway, I expect to move at half the speed, not accelerate at half the speed.

I may have to play w/ this some and see how it feels. I wouldn't expect a button press to cause the player to be instantly at top speed, but maybe I need to handle better the max speed based on where the stick is than I currently am doing. Maybe it should always be a linear acceleration to the associated max point for a given analog position.

Thanks again for all the feedback!