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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralThe Impostor Syndrome in Game Development
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Artylo
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« on: October 19, 2014, 11:46:35 AM »

Before I start, play some

. You'll thank me later. Noir

So...
Seeing myself as a fairly new developer, even if I've been making small projects since around 2011 , making a small prototype of things I think of in the bath or at school and also going to countless game jams, I still have that empty void in my soul, which kicks in every time I try taking up a more serious project.
Mostly due to my young age and inexperience, I've found myself working alone in the cold nights and questioning my worth in this field.
I used to post some clones on TIG, at which I look at today in great shame. I categorized them as "a learning project" or a "breakable toy", which was just a lame way to say that I was very uncreative and lacked the skills necessary to make an original project.
A few years later(aka now) I find myself thinking the same way as the people who critiqued me when I had posted those "games". Even now I feel like I don't belong in the community of game developers, but somehow I still feel like I don't need to prove myself in a way.

Game development has been more of a hobby to me. I consider myself one of those "game dev hippies", who think games are more of an interactive art form than simply a means of entertainment.

I went through the forums again today after a long time of not seeing myself as worthy. In the end I find that game development is not really about worth, but more of showing to yourself that people may like the projects that you work on, even if you find that your project is not really finished and doesn't stand out.

And here I am, talking about the "Impostor Syndrome", is a psychological phenomenon in which people are unable to internalize their accomplishments. Despite external evidence of their competence, those with the syndrome remain convinced that they are frauds and do not deserve the success they have achieved. Proof of success is dismissed as luck, timing, or as a result of deceiving others into thinking they are more intelligent and competent than they believe themselves to be. (via Wikipedia)

It's really not a good thing to have, and it is not easily gotten rid of. As an example, I'm going to be using my old clones.
Seeing a game with some sort of success and some public acceptance possibly made me feel like it was a good idea to COMPLETELY RIP OFF THE ENTIRE GAME!
By ripping off, I mean - mechanics, music, sounds, art, animations, the whole game?
As I said, I classified them as "my way of learning how to make games", which was true, but I never said I was good at ripping off other people's games.

Reading through my old posts I find people with the same current mindset, telling the old me that it's like :
Quote
digging a hole and filling it up again
... which is completely true!

Of course, there is the question of what counts as "original", but games, being an art form, have many different variants.
But how does the impostor syndrome fit in?...
In your effort to put out a non-original game, the critique on it strengthens the effect of the syndrome, making you feel like you can't even rip of something successful.

My tips on how to overcome things like that are to sit down for and evening, and just make a game about things that you are passionate about, things that make you angry.
Tap into some emotions, some flaws of yours... heck, even make a game about your impostor syndrome, with cool jazz music in the back. <insert Inception sounds here>
Just do that for an evening, and just publish it wherever you like! Just look at it as a ultra mini-ludum-dare competition.
Listen to critique and feedback, and don't feel ashamed if someone calls you an impostor, because you're not!
Making games is mostly about fun, and about building your self-consciousness and confidence.

Well... that's all from me for now. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer.
And just make games... you'll feel better about it later.

-Artylo out-
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2014, 02:36:13 PM »

i've heard of it before; it sounds like the inverse of narcissism -- the believe that you are great and a genius despite a lot of evidence that you are pretty ordinary

as far as psychological conditions go i think the most common one for indie game developers, or at least the one that affects me the most at least, is perfectionism. sorry if this is a tangent, but:

perfectionism is responsible for two types of indies who don't finish games: those who work on one game forever, and those that switch from game to game constantly, starting a new one without finishing the old one

with the first, the reason is that they are never satisfied with that one game, so they keep working on tiny little details of it forever, and never actually finish it, like changing particle effects here and there but never working on big parts that need getting done, or else spending inordinate amount of time on areas of the game that don't actually matter

with the second, the reason is they aren't satisfied with their game at all, they think it's going poorly, and want to make a fresh start with a new game idea. they get bored with their game, see all its bugs and problems, and just want to throw it away and start from scratch, getting rid of all the bad terrible feelings associated with the old game, and hoping the new game will go better; of course, the same thing winds up happening with the second game, and they eventually ditch that for a new project too

(a related type of the second are people who make engines forever, rather than games, and start making new engines. this type is particularly common among hardcore coders who hate game engines, because they see game engines as *not perfect enough* for their games. these type almost never finish games)

both types are afraid of playtesters playing their game, or releasing it too early, because they don't want anyone to see the problems in their work. sometimes they'll have a very few people who they trust to play their games and give them feedback, but often they won't show it to anyone at all

the answer to perfectionism, if there even is one, is to just be more objective when judging one's own work, not focusing on the few bad parts, instead focusing on what you do well. one thing that seems to work particularly well for me is playing other games, and looking for parts of those games that are worse than my own. that way you can think 'well my game may be poor, but at least it's not THIS bad, this game is truly horrible, and if this game does well and sells well and has so many fans, maybe my own game's flaws aren't as big as i think they are'
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starsrift
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« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2014, 03:46:12 PM »

ITT: Eres blithely mentions narcissism on his way to talk about a different problem he has, threadjacking to make it about himself, again.

Artylo, I think it's really easy to get hung up on originality and making something unique and different enough to be worth doing. I used to have some problems with it, but, wow, there's a lot of room for it, honestly.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2014, 04:55:33 PM »

haha, isn't accusing other people of psychological disorders kind of worse than talking about a tangent? (besides which, it doesn't even make sense; narcissists believe they are great, they don't believe their work is terrible at all, it's very hard for them to find faults in themselves or anything they make, they tend to easily overlook or explain away any faults as actually being virtues)

anyway, here's a comic i found today that illustrates what i mean pretty well i think:

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tjcbs
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2014, 07:18:50 PM »

i've heard of it before; it sounds like the inverse of narcissism...

ITT: Eres blithely mentions narcissism on his way to talk about a different problem he has, threadjacking to make it about himself, again.

It isn't the inverse of narcissism at all. I don't know what he's talking about anyway.

The real inverse of the OT is a disorder I have, I don't even know what to call it. The things I create really *are* worthy, even perfect in many respects. Yet, people simply refuse to acknowledge this. Maybe due to jealousy, maybe they aren't able to comprehend what I do. Probably a combination of the two.

Lets talk about this.
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Netsu
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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2014, 03:53:24 AM »

The real inverse of the OT is a disorder I have, I don't even know what to call it. The things I create really *are* worthy, even perfect in many respects. Yet, people simply refuse to acknowledge this. Maybe due to jealousy, maybe they aren't able to comprehend what I do. Probably a combination of the two.

How is it a disorder that you have if it's about other people and not you?
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Artylo
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« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2014, 08:34:20 AM »

ITT: Eres blithely mentions narcissism on his way to talk about a different problem he has, threadjacking to make it about himself, again.

Artylo, I think it's really easy to get hung up on originality and making something unique and different enough to be worth doing. I used to have some problems with it, but, wow, there's a lot of room for it, honestly.

Yeah, but it all goes down to just making the games that YOU would to play and games that I want OTHER PEOPLE to play.
It's kinda the same difference between big budget AAA games and indies. Some AAAs are built for the purpose of being a cashgrab, as opposed to some indies which are more about the experience and being outside the meta.
Originality is just a social preference in my opinion.

i've heard of it before; it sounds like the inverse of narcissism -- the believe that you are great and a genius despite a lot of evidence that you are pretty ordinary

as far as psychological conditions go i think the most common one for indie game developers, or at least the one that affects me the most at least, is perfectionism.

You are extremely correct about it also being a different view on perfectionism, but I think the main difference between the two is that perfectionism is mostly about the project (game) that you are working on, as opposed to the impostor syndrome, which is more of a personal flaw than anything.

The real inverse of the OT is a disorder I have, I don't even know what to call it. The things I create really *are* worthy, even perfect in many respects. Yet, people simply refuse to acknowledge this. Maybe due to jealousy, maybe they aren't able to comprehend what I do. Probably a combination of the two.
How is it a disorder that you have if it's about other people and not you?

Netsu has a point.
As I see it, tjcbs, you think that your games are good enough, but people think they're bad?
That's really a matter of personal preference, as I said before. People have the right to critique your work in any way they please. If someone thinks your game is bad he is entitled to do so and it is not a disorder to critique or be critiqued.
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rj
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« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2014, 10:58:00 AM »

i've heard of it before; it sounds like the inverse of narcissism...

ITT: Eres blithely mentions narcissism on his way to talk about a different problem he has, threadjacking to make it about himself, again.

It isn't the inverse of narcissism at all. I don't know what he's talking about anyway.

The real inverse of the OT is a disorder I have, I don't even know what to call it. The things I create really *are* worthy, even perfect in many respects. Yet, people simply refuse to acknowledge this. Maybe due to jealousy, maybe they aren't able to comprehend what I do. Probably a combination of the two.

Lets talk about this.


ok: you're a narcissist.

yeah that's...literally textbook

anyway i deal with this too but i veer back and forth between impostor syndrome and egotrip narcissism. they kind of feed into each other. i'll think "wow i'm the fucking shit" and ten seconds later i'm saying "wow, no i'm not, i was lying to myself the whole time" and the cycle never ends

it's a very complicated emotion. i think i'm kanye west
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team_q
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« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2014, 11:22:37 AM »


it's a very complicated emotion. i think i'm kanye west
Your life is dope and you do dope shit?  Noir
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tjcbs
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2014, 12:45:52 PM »

No one laughs at my jokes.. you people just DON'T GET ME!
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Artylo
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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2014, 12:50:46 PM »

yeah that's...literally textbook

anyway i deal with this too but i veer back and forth between impostor syndrome and egotrip narcissism. they kind of feed into each other. i'll think "wow i'm the fucking shit" and ten seconds later i'm saying "wow, no i'm not, i was lying to myself the whole time" and the cycle never ends

it's a very complicated emotion. i think i'm kanye west

Yeah, exactly. I decided to write the post, just because it was really a complex emotion that kinda reflects not only on people (game devs) but it also reflects on games themselves.
Mostly the reason I said "make a game based on the impostor syndrome". It's a really strange thing to have and some games (Cart Life ect.) really touch some really deep stuff.

Anyway, I've also had some of that fluctuation between "I AM A GAMEDEV GOD!" and "a am a worthless piece of degraded CPU components".
We can get into some really long philosophical and psychological debate an all of this, though I would like to sleep at night...
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bitserum
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« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2014, 01:19:00 PM »

Imposter syndrome is quite common from what I gather. It's just fear though, and the more you build awareness the less hold it has over you. Making a game about it is a really good way of going about building awareness and observing what's going on inside, I guess.
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Artylo
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« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2014, 04:48:41 AM »

Imposter syndrome is quite common from what I gather. It's just fear though, and the more you build awareness the less hold it has over you. Making a game about it is a really good way of going about building awareness and observing what's going on inside, I guess.

Yeah, I've got a folder on my PC called "Games that I make when I'm angry"... I've got some really creepy and weird stuff there.
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rj
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« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2014, 05:37:34 AM »

i would like to play creepy and weird stuff
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Artylo
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« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2014, 07:09:30 AM »

i would like to play creepy and weird stuff

Yeah but it's like...my best friend is a bitch + shooting kittens with a shotgun + all textures being broken hearts + random teleportation...kind of weird and creepy stuff... the good kind
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bitserum
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« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2014, 08:05:23 AM »

Sort of like games version of angst poetry? Smiley

Anyway, that's cool. I like games as an expression device about as much as I like them for their entertainment value (actually... probably more).
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Artylo
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« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2014, 11:25:19 AM »

Sort of like games version of angst poetry? Smiley

Anyway, that's cool. I like games as an expression device about as much as I like them for their entertainment value (actually... probably more).

Here's some screens I took today...
I censored some things, because it's kinda personal, but you can still get the point.



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rj
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« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2014, 11:35:09 AM »

yeah dang! that actually looks pretty rad

i know that it's the equivalent of your private high school college-ruled notebook journal but it looks pretty rad
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Artylo
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« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2014, 12:46:10 PM »

yeah dang! that actually looks pretty rad

i know that it's the equivalent of your private high school college-ruled notebook journal but it looks pretty rad

Yeah... I make cool games when I've got the motive...however dark that motive is Waaagh!

EDIT:
Most of this is done in like an evening with graphics drawn in like 30 minutes with a mouse...cause2angry4tablet (or2lazy).
I should really try to make a game just based off of stream of consciousness...
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 01:24:34 PM by Artylo » Logged
bitserum
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« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2014, 01:42:47 PM »

yeah dang! that actually looks pretty rad

i know that it's the equivalent of your private high school college-ruled notebook journal but it looks pretty rad

Dito this!
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