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[starsrift]

I'm working on a game about intrigue right now. I don't know that it'll get finished, because the game is enormously complex. It's a game of emergence, to set the player in a setting where they have some unknown competitors with unknown goals in a monarchy-court setting, and while they are tasked with a goal, they can discover the actors of intrigue or deal with consequences that arise. At the moment, I'm still working on the "language" of the game, or the actions and NPC positions, motivations and flags.

But the gameplay will involve letting the player investigate things, hear things, and take actions to further their own intrigues and discover and then stymie their opponents, probably involving a pack of agents to do it with.

I have no idea how to display this on-screen though. Something like The Guild or The Sims: Medieval, with an avatar moving around a map (with which you can help to show results of actions) with minions you can set to task? Something more visual-novel based, like Save the Queen? A less atavistic and characterized, more zoomed-out view, like Risk? Something far more character-oriented and stylized, like Divinity: Dragon Commander (without the RTS combat)?

I'm really out to sea on this one.
But fuck, coming up with these algorithms for emergent behaviour is fun as hell.

Edit: I only thought of Dragon Commander's interface as I was writing the post, and I'm actually inclined to think that could fit rather well. Still would love some input, though.

[michaelgabrielr]

That's a very fresh and interesting concept.
You can go on implementing it in several ways but here are a few ideas:

Have a menu from which you can select your desired intrigue/scandal.
From there you can see detailed info about it, like who knows about it, their depth of knowledge regarding the topic and perhaps have those people marked on your map.

For example, in the local city there lived the Dutchess.
For each visitor to the city, their knowledge about her increases either from conversation with characters with knowledge levels higher than him, local press or personally seeing her and deducing a few things about her that way.
Knowledge levels could range from none, though general knowledge all the way to top secret and characters could act differently arround a person depending on what they know about her.
For example, it's common knowledge that the Dutchess is of foreign descent, her servants know that she likes cats, but a select few know that she makes potions for them, not only that, but using her ties to an enemy nation to get the necessary ingredients!
Character skills/knowledge like anthropology, alchemy, zoology and others could allow to spot the info that is hidden in plain sight, but understood by an expert.

Then there's the extra layer: the other person knows that we know about the scandal. And to know whether the other person knows that we know about the scandal, we have to get this info somehow - either through directo contact (a person can tell us or we can tell by their behavior), spies or whatnot. It would be like two people holding a hand of cards and trying to guess what the other is holding.

I'm curious about how it's going to play out.

A good portion of the game would probably revolve arround finding the people who are "in the know" and the ways to get info out of them (friendly chit-chat, bribe, interrogation etc.). After all, knowledge is power (and likely not cheap in some circles). How about a suspition rating that attracts unwanted attention?

Just a few ideas.

[starsrift]

Have a menu from which you can select your desired intrigue/scandal.
From there you can see detailed info about it, like who knows about it, their depth of knowledge regarding the topic and perhaps have those people marked on your map.

Yeah, exactly, which is why I thought of The Guild. More specifically, The Guild II, which had that primitive intrigue system; butter up other people of influence to get votes for titles or help accuse (sometimes falsely) competitors of crimes so they'd go to jail. But The Guild wound up with this very generic look and feel because of the procedurally generated populace - everyone was just a character portrait on a menu.

But menus are bad UI. They're just kind of ugly. It's like the UI decision for an RPG - why have the player walk around town to go to stores instead of just presenting a town as a menu? Because it helps create atmosphere.
Something like Dragon Commander with the presumption that you're moving around a defined area (in that case a ship, in my case a court / diplomatic quarters) and populating it with characters, giving you access to a war room, etc, with a taskbar to help, seems a lot cleaner.

[gimymblert]

look at crusader king 2?

[JWK5]

I am not entirely sure what it is you're planning to do, so forgive me if I am just spouting out what you already know or providing counter-intuitive suggestions here.

Anyways, intrigue is stacked layers of social illusion. Each participant in intrigue is usually contributing to one or more layer of social illusion in order to further some goal (sometimes personal or self-serving, sometimes to further the interests of a specific social group). Each layer manipulates the layers above it but tends to be oblivious to the layers below it (i.e. the manipulator manipulates but seldom realizes he/she is manipulated). It might help to section things into layers and give the player more manipulative options or sleuthing options the more layers he/she has access to (i.e. the player can only impact the layer he/she is on or the layers above). The player's overall knowledge base should be limited to the layer he/she is on, discovering knowledge about lower layers is like unlocking them (i.e. the player has now entered this new layer).

As far as visual representation, you might try a setup similar to Persona 2 where you have a city (town, world, whatever) map and then accessing each location "doorway" takes you to a small focused area (for example, the interior of a house, a shop, etc.) in which the story and interaction happens. Other than the dungeons, Persona 2 keeps the interactive areas small enough that you are moving in and out and around town very quickly. You jump in, gather the necessary info, and rush off to the next locale keeping good pace and following the mystery along nicely.





In terms of intrigue, nothing will be more useful to the player information-wise than a good journal/learned data repository. Being able to keep track of how things connect together and where the trail of intrigue leads is essential, the more tools you have to do that the better.



EDIT: I found Radiant Historia's timeline screen to be pretty useful for quickly catching up on the overall story (particularly in the way it demonstrates how the story flows).

[starsrift]

look at crusader king 2?

Yeah, exactly! Something as detached and unintuitive as CK2 is precisely the thing I want to avoid, good example.

I am not entirely sure what it is you're planning to do, so forgive me if I am just spouting out what you already know or providing counter-intuitive suggestions here.

Anyways, intrigue is stacked layers of social illusion...

I actually hadn't thought of it that way, I'm aiming more at a collection of mysteries viewpoint. It's a really interesting perspective, thank you for raising it! That is super useful.

A journal has to be involved, in fact it'll have to be a major part of the UI - the game's "war room", for lack of a better term. But won't be able do such a linear discovery, it'll have to be a web, as some of the intrigues are interwoven and actors within a plot may be working for more than purpose. And of course some of the conclusions offered by the evidence discovered will be selected or provided by the player.

The issue I'm running into right now is actually related; I want the player to experience 'Wow!' moments as they uncover plots or intrigues, as well as be able to be duped by 'allies' who may actually be intriguing against them, in order to evoke that visceral sense of betrayal or simple surprise - but short of a blunt NPC railroading the player into recognizing a plot, it seems super-difficult to guide someone to recognition from a collection of relevant facts spit at them (mixed with red herrings and facts relevant to the OTHER plots!). At the moment leaning towards direct information, of an NPC telling the player, "I think person y is up to something!" but that seems very contrived and kills the thrill of discovery from finding and differentiating the puppetmaster characters from the puppets. Not sure how to make it fair otherwise; though that could be a difficulty rating thing. It's a short trip from experiencing betrayal to "this is unfair and dumb".

I've slid this to the back burner, at the moment. I'm still very interested in it and hacking on it now and then, but I want to finish a couple other things before I tackle something so character-focused, since art is my weak spot. It lets my mind percolate on some of these interesting design issues, at least.

[JWK5]

What do your characters want and what will they do to get it (lies, coercion, blackmail, bribery, seduction, etc.)? Interaction between these characters is almost always going to be centered around at least one of them trying to get what they want or trying to figure out what the other really wants (you can look at shows like Gotham or Game of Thrones to see it in motion). The player is essentially following a trail that is going from one characters wants to another (and sometimes back again several times over) and another. This trail will ultimately lead and end with what they player really wants (i.e. what it is the player is after in the first place, why they are on this path of intrigue).

Before you do anything (and drive yourself insane taking stabs in the dark), figure out what everyone wants. Remember: similar wants typically result in a struggle, varying wants typically result in manipulation. The greedy and power hungry seldom make use of true cooperation.

Not sure how to make it fair otherwise; though that could be a difficulty rating thing. It's a short trip from experiencing betrayal to "this is unfair and dumb".

Remember, betrayal is a violation of trust. If you want the player to feel betrayal you first have to make them feel trust. An easy and fairly brutal way to accomplish that is to create a character (or characters) that consistently seems to be the player's (helpful) friend and then just when the player needs them most that is when the they are stabbed in the back. The more honest the player feels they are the worse it will sting of betrayal.

That will still come down wants, it is the player's wants versus the betraying character's wants. So again, figure out what everyone wants first.

[gimymblert]

Expension on shadow of mordor interface?

[adrix89]

When I think of intrigue(in books) I think of characters, status and relationships.
Secretes are always a resource to be used. Everyone has secretes and any court worth its salt knows everyone else secrets.
Your power usually comes in favor from the person of a higher status,and their power from the one above them and so on.
The King knows how the game is played, that is why he is a king and not a corpse. Everyone supports the king while secretly plotting his demise. While it might be not true this what the King LIVES(and the reason he is still the king). The King is suspicious of everyone, including you.
This is why escalating the situation is usually a bad idea,while it might have high payoff it will sooner get you dead.
There is no point in point out the traitor in his court, to him everyone is a traitor, traitors perfectly balanced and played against each other and you just messed with the balance.
Intrigue is a continuous stalemate where each party inches along while engaged in proxy wars while in a shrouded in plausible deniability.

Intrigue is also defined by the "unpleasant character" that you cannot really do anything to him and that wants to utterly crush you. He will try to "put you in your place" and try to limit your power and get in your way and if you don't give you will escalate the situation until you lose.
Intrigue also needs some external events to spice up the situation and add unpredictable elements that everyone scrambles to control.
Relationships also play a big role, if the unpleasant character is in a positive relationship with the King it is very hard to change that relationship. For example if the prince wants you dead, good luck.


I hope you name the game "Off with his head!" because that is what usually happens what will happen.