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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessGame demos - worth it? Puppy Games says no, but what do you think?
Poll
Question: Does it make business sense to offer a game demo?
Absolutely, demos drive sales!
Yes, demos are a great marketing tool.
Some kinds of game may benefit. (What kinds? Comment!)
It's a waste of effort.
Demos actively harm sales, even for high-quality games.

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Author Topic: Game demos - worth it? Puppy Games says no, but what do you think?  (Read 2919 times)
Zarkonnen
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« on: November 25, 2014, 04:42:59 AM »

Game demos: worth it? Do they boost sales or prevent them? Puppy Games very strongly says no, and I'd encourage you to read their arguments before voting or commenting. (1, 2) In my own experience, I tend to buy games either at full price having enjoyed the demo, or when they're on sale - but I may not be typical. I also don't really "do" YouTube, and I think that may be the modern substitute for interactive demos.
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Chris Koźmik
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« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2014, 05:09:51 AM »

As a player: Sometimes demos made me buy a game I never intended to buy in the first place, sometimes these made me not buy the game I wanted to buy. Also, sometimes I refused to buy a game because of lack of demo (and sometimes not :D).

So... I don't know. I would say, if your game is really great you probably should go for a demo... Yet, the tastes so differ that having a hyped good game might still benefit from no demo...



Also, an interesting note, I know people who pirate a game and then decide if they will buy it or not (so they treat pirated stuff as a demo). So, it would be a vote for no demo.

Another note (side effect), if you make a demo you should have higher Steam reviews rating (since people who hate your game after seeing the demo would not buy it in the first place and therefore not make a negative review).
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RudyTheDev
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« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2014, 10:30:22 AM »

Demo has transitioned into free to play. "Demo" nowadays is a f2p with a single content-limiting paywall. That's how you'll come across - "pay to get full content". At some point Internet availability gave way to an instant in-app payment model over conventional demos. So asking whether demo is worth it is basically asking if you should name your in-game paywall a "demo" and confuse impulse buyers. Wink

Demo is (well, was) there to convince people to buy before everyone and their mom knew about games. Yet, if you cannot convince contemporary gamers to buy it with screenshots, videos, let's plays, etc. then a demo probably won't change anything. We no longer need to subscribe to gaming magazines to get the demo CD with 2 new games that month. There are so many games and every one is seconds away from a search. And it's quicker to judge 20 game videos in the time it would take you to download one.

Only two places I can see a "demo" demo working is obscure and niche genres where you can't really tell what you are getting until you play it. If your game can be described in known genre names and comparisons to other games, probably not. The other is an instant web player/webgl/html5-style demo straight in the website next to a "buy" button. But the technology of such a vertical slice is... complicated.
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Sik
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« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2014, 11:33:16 AM »

You forgot that demos are also useful to see if the game runs properly on your system (especially when it comes to PC). You don't want to spend money on something you can't use, unless you're feeling charitable (or you know you can change that situation soon).

If you care about accessibility, the demo can also be useful for people with some sort of disability to check if the game is playable for them (but make sure you include every setting present from the full version as well!).
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erebusman
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« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2014, 12:32:42 PM »

You forgot that demos are also useful to see if the game runs properly on your system (especially when it comes to PC). You don't want to spend money on something you can't use, unless you're feeling charitable (or you know you can change that situation soon).

If you care about accessibility, the demo can also be useful for people with some sort of disability to check if the game is playable for them (but make sure you include every setting present from the full version as well!).

Back in the 1980's this was a huge decider for me. Even the 90's remained valid.

I have not run in to this problem in the past 10 years though.. have you?


Otherwise though as a developer I'm not producing demos simply from the 'race to the bottom' sales atmosphere, the price of your game on steam is going to be less than a cup of coffee at starbucks before you know it.  The LOE / cost to produce a demo as a barrier to entry for a customer that's not willing to spend less than a cup of coffee just isn't worth it to me.

Also as noted by others; if I were to do anything resembling it would be a paywall for content activation.

Heck I'm even worried in The Rise of Dagon if I should release any alpha play test demos .. they would be simple demos like combat demos or opportunities for people to play with the level editor but I fear it would reduce sales because they would be using an alpha and see plenty of problems (duh!) and then go "oh well I tried it, so now I don't need to buy it when it comes out".
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2014, 02:29:07 PM »

I have not run in to this problem in the past 10 years though.. have you?

Last year, heads-on. I still had hardware that was capped at OpenGL 2.1 (old hardware is more common than you think outside the biggest countries) and the games wanted OpenGL 3.0. Luckily I was gifted them, otherwise if they didn't have a demo I'd have been screwed. I had to wait until halfway this year to get a new computer, and only then I could play the games.

Now, that was an issue with old hardware. But there are also driver compatibility issues to take care of (e.g. maybe the game just plain crashes with your particular system, despite it meeting the system requirements), or maybe the game doesn't play nice with some other software that's installed as well. And also the fact that some setups simply have a tendency to break things (fullscreen games in multimonitor systems tends to be a big one, no way you can tell what will come out of this one without trying yourself).

So yeah, there are many things that can go wrong still, even if you ignore people who still have quite outdated hardware. It would be nice if the system requirements were truly the only issue.
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Müsta Klaki
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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2014, 08:51:43 PM »

I feel like game-play focused games benefit more from demos, while story-based games can benefit more from "first look" videos. A story can be passively shown to a player, while with a gameplay focused game your player will have to be there to experience it for themselves, you can't really convey the experience properly through videos/descriptions, even peer reviews won't capture all of the gameplay mechanics and the game's "feel."

Also, any game that can possibly be difficult to run should ALWAYS have a demo, just something small to make sure your players can run it.
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« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2014, 09:47:39 PM »

There can be other reasons to make a demo than just to distribute it directly to the audience, tho. It seems quite essential to have one to show the game off at something like PAX. Making a demo might also be a great way for oneself to focus on properly almost finishing a section of the game as tho that were the entire game, allowing oneself to really get a good feel for the final game and make important decisions before the project has run off too far according to the original plans.
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Sik
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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2014, 02:16:08 AM »

Those demos aren't the same kind as the one you would give to players though (it's very likely both demos would end up being very different build-wise). Even then, the discussion here is not whether making a demo is good or not, but rather whether offering free demos to the players is.
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oodavid
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« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2014, 02:30:03 AM »

Demos help you iron out bugs and get early feedback - features you thought were "killer" might play second fiddle to glitches that are more fun!
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2014, 07:00:05 AM »

Demos can be a great marketing tool or the downfall of your sales. The reason is because each game is unique and some games that are really complex in nature need a demo to give the consumer a full idea of what the game is about and how the game mechanics work. Other games that are simpler can cut sales because the people playing the demo can get their "fix" of your game enjoy it for a little bit and then move on without ever converting into a sale. So overall its a slippery slop but it does have its place in a marketing plan it just needs to be carefully executed.
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2014, 03:55:09 PM »

I tend to feel like a good demo is one of the best things you can do for your game, while a bad demo is one of the worst. There's no middle ground.

From a consumer perspective, I'm frustrated at how rare demos have become. Let's Plays helped mitigate that a bit, but I'm very kinesthetics-focused and watching a Let's Play rarely gives me a sense for how the game feels. I've lost count of how many games I've bought and discarded within ten minutes because they felt like shit (bad controls, bad performance, no juice, etc.) despite getting everything else more or less right.

I... may be atypical. Embarrassed
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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2014, 04:25:24 AM »

I've lost count of how many games I've bought and discarded within ten minutes
It seems not having a demo succeeded in better selling those (bad) games.  Hand Money Left Well, hello there! Hand Money Right
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« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2014, 08:40:13 AM »

I'm on the fence on this one. I think it can be a huge boost or your downfall, depending on the game and how it is executed.

For Bishop Games, we're planning to release a demo to our friend gamers and devs for Christmas, to test the material before PAX South. It will give us a month to correct things if a bug appears or if we failed on something. In that sense, I think having a demo is a great feature. It gives you feedback and a second-look on your game. Sometimes we, devs, are too close to our game and can be somewhat blinded to the truth. Sometimes you think a feature is awesome only to have the public hate it. So to test your material, I think a demo is awesome.

Now, will we release a FREE demo available to all? Erm, I'm not too sure...

Interesting debate, that's for sure.
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LW Games
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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2014, 09:54:25 AM »

I kinda agree with Puppygames, these days you most likely loose sales instead of gaining. Very few want a demo and those that play they must really like your game to buy, or might get enough fun from the demo. More over, to make a really good demo in terms of gameplay time, attraction, low attention span etc, it takes a lot of time and overall its not worth it, imho.

While at first i was a huge supporter of demos, since i ve been a PC Gamer since Dune 1, but these days most of the people don't waste time with that.

Well this is my experience of course, dont take it a supreme fact, each project is different, each approach on publishing/marketing the game is also different, based on resources and experience.

 
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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2014, 01:04:17 PM »

These days demos are better for marketing during development as opposed to after release. The digital realm has far too many alternatives that are easier for end users to learn what they need. Let's plays will provide all the gameplay footage most will want or need to determine their purchase.

Demo's apply to indies only for building a following during development or Kickstarter. Most backers these days won't even consider your project unless you have a functioning demo proving you're not all smoke and concept art.
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oodavid
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« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2014, 01:27:32 PM »

I say screw the "bad demo can ruin sales" mantra, release it stealthily and get a few real, organic players and start getting feedback ASAP. There's nothing to say your game can't be out for a year and then have a release party! Release Early, Release Often!
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« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2014, 04:54:02 AM »

I haven't played a demo for 10 years I think, I only buy games so cheap that demos are a waste of time or the ones I pretty much know I'm gonna like.

Still, I think demos are what could greatly benefit all those struggling kickstarter campaigns. If you could release a polished, short demo to showcase that you are capable of finishing your product people would be much more willing to fund you.
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« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2014, 06:08:02 AM »

Demo's mades sense 20 years ago, but these days anything which gets in the way of people just downloading and playing your actual game is not a good idea.
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« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2014, 10:07:32 PM »

Isn't that the main argument of those proposing everybody to switch to HTML5 actually, that you could skip the downloading step as well and just embed the game in the site itself? (and then provide downloading for those who want to keep playing the game outside the site)
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