dez
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« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2015, 03:26:25 PM » |
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For our project, we were hoping to start a Kickstarter next month, but I think we may hold off until we feel we've built a bit of a community or had some press coverage with early versions of the game. I think this is a very very good idea. Something I should have mentioned, too. You can't ask for money to pay your salaries because no one realizes that game developers need to eat or have homes. That is another thing I should have added too, and that I have heard separately from several sources: for some reason many people object to game devs earning a salary. Project creators should keep this in mind. I think it is related to the artificially low goals that creators set due to using kickstarter as simply a marketing tool as opposed to a funding tool. It makes customers think that games are be made for 10k or 20k. It tends to distort reality (unless we only consider developers that live in dorms or with their parents), for better or worse.
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s0
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« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2015, 04:07:18 PM » |
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I think it is related to the artificially low goals that creators set due to using kickstarter as simply a marketing tool as opposed to a funding tool. It makes customers think that games are be made for 10k or 20k. alternatively: customers are kids who have never had a real job
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teefal
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« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2015, 06:44:11 PM » |
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Dan, Thanks for your post. I've struggled with the honesty bit too, frustrated that the over promisers get more than they're due. It's tempting to say what you think people want to hear. Personally, I don't have the stomach for it. My dad ran an ad agency, the original Don Draper and was more full of it than anyone I've ever met, but it Worked. (Wasn't so great as a parenting approach Anyway this topic has me rethinking our Kickstart plans. tee
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joe_eyemobi
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« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2015, 01:01:09 PM » |
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KS is definitely not dead for us game devs, it's just more mature now. As such we need to up our game, esp. if we're not a known dev like Double Fine. A lot of this comes down to presentation and first impressions. It's just like the gold-rush days of App store and SGL. At first people didn't know what to make of it and just bought everything, once each of those store fronts hit the beginnings of their maturity cycle (which coincided with a huge glut of games), buyers started becoming much more wary and discerning about their purchases. The same thing has happened with KS. The key aspect to being successful at KS is all about the preparation. You pretty much predetermine success before day 1 of the campaign. Anyway perhaps this blog I put together might help a bit: http://gamasutra.com/blogs/JoeChang/20141117/230163/Postmortem_for_a_Kickstarter_Project_that_just_made_it_over_the_line.php
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bluebirdplays
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« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2015, 04:03:24 PM » |
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Just my two cents- you really need some form of a fanbase. Even you are still relatively unknown, followers who are dedicated to your games are going to be the ones promoting the kickstarter the most. Having connections that will help promote the kickstarter is essential.
Sometimes you'll just get lucky, and people will come across your game through the not-so-great search results, but...it's pretty rare.
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MaxShields
Level 0
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« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2015, 07:28:20 PM » |
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The replies so far are excellent and on target. Having been through the roller coaster marathon that is a Kickstarter campaign back in November 2013, I'd say that the preparation you put into a Kickstarter will definitely shape your chances of success. Have all the details sorted out beforehand. Have a campaign plan in mind with lots of material ready to go before you launch, because you won't have time to produce it as the campaign is running.
Faltering during the campaign, even because you're catching your breath, can scare backers off.
The biggest challenge you will have to getting a campaign to work for you as an indie is getting word out. That is why a fan base, probably built on a solid foundation of friendships and handshakes, is invaluable leverage and has been mentioned so many times before.
So I'd say, no, it's not dead, but you'd better be prepared like a pro to have a real hope of pulling it off.
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joe_eyemobi
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« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2015, 07:48:45 PM » |
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Just my two cents- you really need some form of a fanbase. Even you are still relatively unknown, followers who are dedicated to your games are going to be the ones promoting the kickstarter the most. Having connections that will help promote the kickstarter is essential.
Sometimes you'll just get lucky, and people will come across your game through the not-so-great search results, but...it's pretty rare.
This is very important - KS is a multiplier, not a creator. So going in with no fanbase will give you little return.
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Gluntronics
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« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2015, 08:25:31 PM » |
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I think its a lot harder to raise money on KS than it was before backers got burned during the gold rush period (read that as after the success of the Broken Age campaign). I'm currently running a KS campaign and feel like it's going pretty well but we put a lot of time and effort into our campaign. I think that it may have been a lot easier a year ago. Regardless failing a KS campaign is a great alternative to taking investment that could throw you into debt. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strafegame/strafe
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Pandara_RA!
Level 6
Maximum Friendship All Day
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« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2015, 11:41:25 PM » |
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Success rates are still pretty much exactly what they were a few years ago at 38% for games under 100k.
So no, kickstarter isnt dead, and no its not harder, its actually about the same.
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RichSG
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« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2015, 04:52:32 AM » |
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re: "customer trust has been broken": i think ppl are just waking up to the fact that you can't just pay someone to make your dream game for you. most of the early high profile KS projects* were/are never going to live up to the ridiculous expectations ppl had for them. there's a risk involved in funding and it's not a guarantee to get an amazing product. i think we might actually be on the way to developing a more healthy attitude towards crowdfunding at the moment.
*talking about the ones that weren't already in development and just needed an extra push like e.g. FTL and divinity original sin.
I agree. Speaking personally, I've backed a couple of KS game projects but will not back anything by an indie team. The simple fact is there's no guarantee about the ending product. I wish kickstarter would introduce some features to add more risk management into projects that you back, for example: 1. have milestones. These are dates set when the project team has to demo what they have to backers, regardless of progress. Maybe if they haven't made enough progress, you get the chance to withdraw your backing and get a % of your money back 2. if backed successfully, the team get money drip fed to them, ie: not all at once. This would work in conjunction with 1) above. IT would force the team to manage their funds correctly, and would again also introduce some safety net for the backers. I would have far more confidence in backing smaller projects if kickstarter introduced those 2 features. One of the big problems (from what I've read) about failed projects is that a lot of people just don't have good project management skills. It may be boring but being able to manage your resources is key, especially if you get funded a lot more than you asked for.
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bombjack
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« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2015, 01:52:00 AM » |
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Personaly, I prefer to buy early access that kickstart. Because with early acces I know what buy. Even if the game is never finished I bought an early version of it which is, most of the time, interesting enough for me.
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CornerBoothGames
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« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2015, 06:38:49 PM » |
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I don't think Kickstarter is dead, but I think it's a case of the market correcting itself. Too many projects are started that are unpolished, too early in development, have no real means of ever finishing, or just aren't that original. I think pledgers are starting to see through a lot of that. I completely believe in the platform and it's mission though. I just think it will be harder now for some projects to get funded than a few years ago. With that being said, I think if you are working your hardest and making the right decisions, you will do well. I think it's more about making that connection with your followers than anything else. I want to go to Kickstarter as well, and plan to in the future. But I will make sure when I do it, I am ready for anything it can throw at me. I know it's a full time job in itself.
I will wish good luck to anyone here that does set up a campaign in the near future.
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TheGreatBundini
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« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2015, 08:12:18 AM » |
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I think its a lot harder to raise money on KS than it was before backers got burned during the gold rush period (read that as after the success of the Broken Age campaign). I'm currently running a KS campaign and feel like it's going pretty well but we put a lot of time and effort into our campaign. I think that it may have been a lot easier a year ago. Regardless failing a KS campaign is a great alternative to taking investment that could throw you into debt. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strafegame/strafeYou guys sure did a great job early on, especially with all the press and word of mouth that trailer generated. You definitely set your sights high with that goal, and raised a lot of money so far, so it's disappointing to see that it's less than 50% with only a week left.
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joe_eyemobi
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« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2015, 02:42:51 PM » |
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I think its a lot harder to raise money on KS than it was before backers got burned during the gold rush period (read that as after the success of the Broken Age campaign). I'm currently running a KS campaign and feel like it's going pretty well but we put a lot of time and effort into our campaign. I think that it may have been a lot easier a year ago. Regardless failing a KS campaign is a great alternative to taking investment that could throw you into debt. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strafegame/strafeThat's amazing, you're getting some great numbers (backers and total backing)! How did you manage to do so well? Did you have an existing fan base or do anything in particular with your PR?
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Gluntronics
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« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2015, 04:24:06 PM » |
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I think its a lot harder to raise money on KS than it was before backers got burned during the gold rush period (read that as after the success of the Broken Age campaign). I'm currently running a KS campaign and feel like it's going pretty well but we put a lot of time and effort into our campaign. I think that it may have been a lot easier a year ago. Regardless failing a KS campaign is a great alternative to taking investment that could throw you into debt. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/strafegame/strafeThat's amazing, you're getting some great numbers (backers and total backing)! How did you manage to do so well? Did you have an existing fan base or do anything in particular with your PR? There wasn't much of an existing fan base but we had some dedicated people who've been following the devblog. We had been building STRAFE® for about 9 months when we went live. I put a lot of time and love into the kickstarter page and video and we tried to do something that people hadn't seen before... and it worked. By having a video that was more of a commercial than us asking for money it got us a lot of initial press and praise. It was a video sites could throw up and I believe we were the first Kickstarter video to get a vimeo staff pick! But it was bitter sweet. Some (ignorant) people online assumed we spent a lot of money on the spot (it was less than $1500) and said we should have used that to fund the game and that backlash hurt us a bit. Also people complained there wasn't enough game play in the spot. We released a 10+ min gameplay video a week into the campaign but I guess some people needed that up front. When planning the month long campaign we had scheduled for content to be released every couple of days to keep interest and thought the initial spot would last 10 days, we were really wrong. Also we found that even though KS is a fund raising platform people do not treat it as one. Having the $25 tier be where people were gifted the game and soundtrack turned A LOT of people off. We saw a lot of people complain about that price point and state that $15 was their ceiling. Probably due to being burned in the past. This lead us to our last big lesson which is even after the new $15 price point and the gameplay video most of those people who complained initially didn't check back in. They saw the campaign once, decided they didn't like it then repeated their complaints even after we changed our ways. And without the press we initially had our middle campaign lull was LOW AND LONG. So although I think we will make it, it was incredibly scary for a long time int he campaign. Some tips I would love to share. • Get as much info out as possible up front. Don't hold on to info to slowly bleed out if its crucial. • Anything over $15 to get the game makes people mad - Unless you're famous. • Most people will only see your campaign once, make it easy for them to find what they need. • Be honest and only commit to things you know you can do. • No one reads anymore (you're probably not even reading this... dammit)
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Ryuno
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« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2015, 03:14:17 AM » |
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No, but it certainly became harder to get $100k+ for concept art.
Kickstarter can still be effective for funding projects to their completion, but not so much as a way to make profit from a product that doesn't exactly exist yet. The many horror stories made a big number of recurring backers change their mind about crowdfunding and general perception of it is not so great anymore.
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OneSlyFox
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« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2015, 08:35:30 AM » |
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The thing that hurt Kickstarter the most wasn't the indie devs not delivering on their promises, but the ol' timer AAA guys not delivering. That stings. And what makes it worse is that, due to their fame, the failure is widely publicized. Kickstarter might not be dead, but it's definitely limping.
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joe_eyemobi
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« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2015, 12:28:44 PM » |
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• No one reads anymore (you're probably not even reading this... dammit)
Haha, no I have just read it I'm just slower than usual with the rush that is GDC Thanks very much for sharing - this is really useful information that proves KS is far from dead. Hey just a quick question: who did you get to do the trailer? We're still looking for a dependable but affordable video guy who knows games to do our one for our Steam Launch.
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Gluntronics
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« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2015, 01:43:38 PM » |
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• No one reads anymore (you're probably not even reading this... dammit)
Haha, no I have just read it I'm just slower than usual with the rush that is GDC Thanks very much for sharing - this is really useful information that proves KS is far from dead. Hey just a quick question: who did you get to do the trailer? We're still looking for a dependable but affordable video guy who knows games to do our one for our Steam Launch. I wrote and directed the STRAFE® spot. We worked around things we had to keep costs down... but I am a professional video director so that helped a lot. Take your time to make a spot you love because it's all some gamers will see before loving or hating your game.
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Oroboros
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« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2015, 02:30:07 PM » |
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I'd say a handful of high profile blunders (Like Molyneux's recent Godus and Planetary Annihilation) have tarnished consumer trust in the funding model. Word of mouth is mixed.
However, it hasn't hurt funding in general- I think devs have compensated for these incidents with much more transparency into what the money is going towards, early playable versions of their games and much better attention to marketing in general.
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