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[Rat Casket]

you know what i mean, dude.

[LuisAnton]

Here's mine: Bluman (http://ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-31/?action=preview&uid=12053). It's the first time I code a platformer. I thought it would be a pain doing it in Unity2D, but it was a breeze! I'm quite happy with how it feels. Hope you like it. Note: it's fucking difficult in some points, but I think the ending is worth it.

[Interface]

Thanks for whoever moved my post here. I knew it didn't make sense nobody was replying to it.

Anyway, here's my entry, Slope Challenge3.

http://ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-31/?action=preview&uid=42145

[Rat Casket]

my favorite thing is that people get so fucking butthurt when you tell them that their trash game is trash. then they come and leave a shitty comment on your game.

happens to me anyway.

[VDZ]

my favorite thing is that people get so fucking butthurt when you tell them that their trash game is trash. then they come and leave a shitty comment on your game.

happens to me anyway.

I think the bigger issue is that you didn't explain your criticism.

Bullets are hard to see among the green tiles.
Tiles are overly busy when compared to the player.
Sound is really grating.
No logic at all to what is actually happening at any given time.

Im not sure what this was supposed to be?

(emphasis mine)

The first three are valid points, but what do you even mean by those last two points? The first is pretty much a 'your game sucks' without any explanation, while the latter sounds mocking without actually making any point.

I tend to give really harsh criticism, but I've never had anyone do anything like that to me before. Hell, with how things are nowadays I'm surprised there's even anyone else who leaves negative comments on games anymore.

[Rat Casket]

Its whatever, it just cracks me up that people get so bent out of shape over it. His game does suck and the only way to improve it is to make a new game that isnt the one he made.

[alvarop]

His game does suck and the only way to improve it is to make a new game that isnt the one he made.

best post I've read so far on tig

[LuisAnton]

my favorite thing is that people get so fucking butthurt when you tell them that their trash game is trash. then they come and leave a shitty comment on your game.
happens to me anyway.

Quite probably because you state your opinion but it sounds like a fact and that probably isn't too nice. Try adding something positive to your comments, not just plain criticism! I guess this was you in my entry:

The real difficulty of the game comes from the really heavy controls. It takes forever to come to a stop, it takes forever to reach your max speed.
Jumping felt very awkward.
Wall climbing controls are still confusing to me.
Players hitbox doesnt match his sprite.

'Forever' compared to what? Awkward why? Climbing confuses you and some others, but I already commented that one (it's probably due to the animation). Players hitbox seldom match sprites - they are usually smaller to give room to errors, right? Man, didn't you like anything at all?

But hey, thanks for playing. I can't play yours because it's windows only. Not web, not linux, not mac, no source code... but the screenshot looks good

[Rat Casket]

Yeah that was me, and tbh no I didn't like it. It feels like the other 400 single screen platformers that were submitted that ALL do the exact same thing, and all miss the basics of good platformer controls. Save for Birdsong, that is.

It takes forever to stop moving. Compared to, say, any platformer that plays well. I made a really shitty platformer that controls like this. Its awful for this reason. You die constantly because you have no control over when you actually stop, and youre forced to adjust by pushing the opposite direction, which often results in the player dying to some other hazard.

It takes forever to reach your max speed, which means I have to get a really good running start to make jumps from platforms that dont actually represent how much room I have to run on because my player sprite is much smaller than his hitbox, which means theres literally invisible collision that I have to account for to make some jumps, and to get to my normal speed.

Jumping feels awkward because the height that you gain doesnt reflect the distance you can jump. You fall far too fast, and this makes jumping over spikes way harder than it should be when coupled with the ambiguous hitboxes.

Hitbox is way bigger than the sprite. I died countless times jumping over shit and trying to figure out where the magical invisible hitbox was so that I knew how to jump. The player sprite didnt matter at all at this point and it became a matter of trying to see through everything on the screen into what was actually going on. It makes the game feel unresponsive, and unfair.



This sounds harsh probably but its actually fact. Evidenced by countless other platformers with good controls. I AM trying to be harsh by the way because too many people will not tell you that your game sucks and its important to hear that it does. If my game sucks, I want to know and I want to know exactly why so I can fix it.

Ya dig?

Anyway its my fault for assuming that people will get anything out of a few lines about the problems their game has instead of an in-depth explanation.

And I wish I had the means to port to another platform but I unfortunately do not and I suck.

EDIT: I posted this here because I had time. Previously I didn't. Sorry bout that.

[LuisAnton]

Now THAT'S useful. And I agree with all you say (though the hitbox is a bug, I swear I thought it was actually narrower than the player's sprite). But I'm happy with my entry nevertheless: this time I just wanted to create a platformer, I had never done that and I wanted to try. Next time I'll do better : )

[VDZ]

Its whatever, it just cracks me up that people get so bent out of shape over it. His game does suck and the only way to improve it is to make a new game that isnt the one he made.

But if the creator just makes a new game, it will likely suck as well, because he doesn't know what precisely he did wrong. You tell him element X is WRONG, but WHY is it wrong? It's much more important to understand why elements in your game are disliked than just knowing that they are disliked. By knowing why things are wrong you'll know how to make things more satisfying next time around even when the game isn't the exact same.

Anyway its my fault for assuming that people will get anything out of a few lines about the problems their game has instead of an in-depth explanation.

Precisely. The people most needing the feedback are the people that won't understand what you mean unless you describe it properly. If the person already understands the flaws of his game, what is the point of even pointing them out?

Now, your longer post on Woodwolf's game, THAT is excellent criticism. I'm entirely sure people will be more appreciative of your feedback if you explain it like that.

[Rat Casket]

Meh, fuck that guy. He's an asshole. Unlike wood wolf. I don't have the time or want to explain how to design a game from the ground up because literally everything he did was awful.

[joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

'Forever' compared to what? Awkward why? Climbing confuses you and some others, but I already commented that one (it's probably due to the animation). Players hitbox seldom match sprites - they are usually smaller to give room to errors, right? Man, didn't you like anything at all?

it is not his job to design your game for you -- if you think his criticisms are vague, it is your job to make them specific. If you think he's wrong, you have the power to ignore him.

Videogames are so situational and contextual that there is virtually no 'why it's wrong' -- certainly not one that can be boiled into a single comment, or even a one-way article. Only an in depth discussion of the mechanic and the designers goals could achieve results and... That's game design, that's just making your game for you.

[VDZ]

I don't have the time or want to explain how to design a game from the ground up because literally everything he did was awful.

In that case your comment is useless and wastes both your and his time. He'll find out his game is awful when he sees his ratings. The point of criticism is to help someone understand what he could've done better, and if it doesn't do that it's not useful (unless the poster just enjoyed telling people their work is bad, in which it benefits the poster emotionally, but then the poster is what is generally referred to as 'an asshole').

it is not his job to design your game for you -- if you think his criticisms are vague, it is your job to make them specific. If you think he's wrong, you have the power to ignore him.

Videogames are so situational and contextual that there is virtually no 'why it's wrong' -- certainly not one that can be boiled into a single comment, or even a one-way article. Only an in depth discussion of the mechanic and the designers goals could achieve results and... That's game design, that's just making your game for you.

I strongly disagree. I could agree about the 'you should ask further' if the criticism were given in a conversation, but when written as a comment on a page people will likely not revisit? You could ask, but you probably won't get an answer, either because the poster doesn't check back or because as in Rat Casket's case he's unwilling to give detailed feedback (otherwise he probably would've posted that in the first place).

There is most definitely a 'why it's wrong'. To take an example of an obvious flaw in a game, Tifu's game has no sound and no flickering enemies/player. And that's wrong. You could leave it at that (claiming that there's no 'why it's wrong'), but that doesn't tell the creator anything. "There's no sound and no flickering enemies/player. As a result, I couldn't tell when I was properly hitting the enemy or being hit." That's a clear 'why' that explains why it's wrong, and it lets the creator know why it's important (beyond just 'you should do it because everyone does it like that').

We've seen a very good example in this very thread. Rat Casket pointed out that the player's hitbox doesn't match his sprite. Why is that wrong, wondered Woodwolf, because it's pretty common for a player's hitbox to not match his sprite, and there's a good reason for that. It isn't until Rat Casket points out that he wasn't able to intuitively tell how to time his jumps because of the mismatch when the hitbox is bigger than expected that Woodwolf understood what the real problem with his game was. Explaining the 'why' is extremely important.

That's game design, that's just making your game for you.

Isn't criticism one of the primary ways to learn artistic skills like game design? Yes, explaining why it's wrong is teaching him game design. But isn't that exactly the point? What is the point of the criticism if not to make him understand how he could perform better at game design?

[joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

That's game design, that's just making your game for you.

Isn't criticism one of the primary ways to learn artistic skills like game design? Yes, explaining why it's wrong is teaching him game design. But isn't that exactly the point? What is the point of the criticism if not to make him understand how he could perform better at game design?

Criticism, yes. Offering solutions, not necessarily. The point of criticism is to communicate your thoughts as a player/designer/whatever, not give the person you are criticizing a how to guide.

We've seen a very good example in this very thread. Rat Casket pointed out that the player's hitbox doesn't match his sprite. Why is that wrong, wondered Woodwolf, because it's pretty common for a player's hitbox not matching his sprite, and there's a good reason for that.

The job of a game designer is to ask those questions, and choose from the infinite possible answers. By providing a solution, Nathan is designing his game. Nathan's solution is not correct -- it is simply a solution. Explaining why is a way to offer insight to how the critic would design the game; There's nothing wrong with it -- but it's certainly not their responsibility. It's totally crazy to think that a commenter owes whoever posted the game design tips.

[rocknlouie]

Hey I would like to say... I am the guy who made that awful game. It was the first time I ever even came close to making a game "finished", if you could even call it that. I also had to do all the art, sound, and programming by myself, and it was the first time I did a lot of things in Unity. Your first three sentences were helpful. your 4th was pretty undescriptive, but I actually know exactly what you are talking about, because the enemy logic is basically move towards player, and jump if stuck. thats it. that is all i had time for. People don't have to explain the criticism, its my job to make sense of it, but your 5th sentence was just plain rude and absolutely not necessary. Especially considering about half the games I play at LD are about as rough as mine, and we are working with limited time. You are wrong about one thing, YOU are the asshole.

Anyone else care to rate my game? its nice to hear feedback, even if negative. Honestly, I could take his commentary. His first four were negative but all helpful. Being straight up rude though, like 5th line, just makes me dismiss your opinion completely, and I will probably send angry words at you. I dont know why you would expect otherwise.

http://ludumdare.com/compo/ludum-dare-31/?action=preview&uid=44470

or here is a gameplay video with better sound quality

[rocknlouie]

His game does suck and the only way to improve it is to make a new game that isnt the one he made.

best post I've read so far on tig

I agree with both of these. The game is really not as bad as you make it sound, but its pretty bad, and I would rather not fix it and just take what I learned and make a new game. Im making an rpg/roguelike/interactive simulation game, which is more my style. The Dino Arena thing was just a silly idea, but really... its nowhere near as bad as you make it sound, and I am quite aware of why it is bad. I really don't understand why you seem to overlook that it is a 3 day game jam. It is the perfect chance to make something you have never made before, and I learned a lot thanks to LD.

[Rat Casket]

I really don't understand why you seem to overlook that it is a 3 day game jam.

That is not an excuse to make something bad. A lot of people made some amazing shit in those 3 days, or even 2 days on their own. Saying that it was for a 3 day jam doesnt excuse quality.

[VDZ]

Anyone else care to rate my game? its nice to hear feedback, even if negative.

I've posted feedback on your game.

Being straight up rude though, like 5th line, just makes me dismiss your opinion completely, and I will probably send angry words at you. I dont know why you would expect otherwise.

I think you're using the wrong word there. Good criticism is rude. Rude is just the absence of the polite niceness (which is often bullshit, as in the case of feedback) people use in conversation. I think you meant derisive, mocking or insulting.



If you DID mean you will discard any feedback people give you whenever it isn't nicely wrapped in 'great effort you made a game oh wow youre totally the best :) :) :)', then I would tell you to go fuck yourself as in that case you're not actually accepting feedback and just want people to praise you for doing the exact same thing 2636 other people have done last weekend (and many more are doing all the time, not just during jams).

I really don't understand why you seem to overlook that it is a 3 day game jam.

That is not an excuse to make something bad. A lot of people made some amazing shit in those 3 days, or even 2 days on their own. Saying that it was for a 3 day jam doesnt excuse quality.

Fully agreed. You can do amazing things in 48 hours, let alone 72 hours. "It's a 48/72-hour game jam" is no excuse for a lack of quality.

[rocknlouie]

I don't want it nicely wrapped. His 4 lines were fine. But saying, "not sure what this is even supposed to be?" is not even feedback. It is an insult. Of course he fucking knows what it is supposed to be. This should not be something difficult to figure out or understand. He was being a fucking asshole. simple.

Look:

I really don't understand why you seem to overlook that it is a 3 day game jam.

That is not an excuse to make something bad. A lot of people made some amazing shit in those 3 days, or even 2 days on their own. Saying that it was for a 3 day jam doesnt excuse quality.

He is STILL being a fucking asshole. The game is not that bad. He is just being a total fucking bitch.

The excuse for not making a quality game isn't that it was 3 days, it is that I am new to this, and I have NEVER fucking made a game, and I know I did not get to 90% of the things I wanted to. I did not even have time to resize the fucking HUD text. MY god damn well froze over that weekend, because my landlord is a fucking idiot, and it is still frozen now. Those are excuses for the quality. The 3 day thing is supposed to be an excuse for you not to act like a fucking asshole. Just because people CAN make something quality in 3 days, doesn't mean everyone will. Why does he pretend to be such a confused innocent fucking bitch? He knows exactly how much of an asshole he is, and yet he is pretending this is about something other than that he is an asshole.