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TIGSource ForumsCommunityTownhallForum IssuesArchived subforums (read only)CreativeProgrammer creating a spec for a pixelartist
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kvisle
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« on: December 17, 2014, 04:58:00 AM »

Hi,

I'm looking to copartner / hire a pixelartist for my game - and I've run into a "problem" that I suspect isn't that uncommon: To actually give the pixelartist useful instructions on what needs to be produced, and the rules of how this can be applied gently into the game engine.

As a programmer, I have a very technical view of how things are working together.  I've spoken to pixelartists that range from not technical at all, to having a deep technical understanding of how a game engine work.

I wonder if any artists could share any experiences that you have on receiving instructions from a programmer.  What went good, what went bad - what should the programmer focus on to get the most out of the artist?
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Canned Turkey
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2014, 10:35:50 AM »

...
I'm looking to copartner / hire a pixelartist for my game - and I've run into a "problem" that I suspect isn't that uncommon: To actually give the pixelartist useful instructions on what needs to be produced, and the rules of how this can be applied gently into the game engine.
...
I don't really understand your problem.

Artists don't need to know the engine your game is running on. All they need to do is make pretty little pictures for you to put into the game, right? I mean the most knowledge of programming they'll need is the size limits of each sprite/background.

If I'm just not understanding the what you're saying, please forgive me, I just can't see how this is an issue.
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Lux
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« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2014, 04:28:53 PM »

If you know what you need and how you're going to need to implement the assets, let the artist know about those things if it's relevant on their end. (Sprite resolutions, export formats, etc.) If you've got a decently experienced artist, they should understand what you're talking about. Sometimes you're going to have to collaborate with the artist to figure out how to implement their work, like if they've created something that needs to work in a way that you didn't account for in your initial plan. Sometimes programmers/designers don't really understand the logistics of the art they need, and in that case you should discuss those things with the artist before they go ahead and start making the deliverables. Don't leave an artist in the dark about things like accommodating multiple resolutions and aspect ratios for mobile development. While some artists may know how to handle this, a lot won't and even if they do it's probably not in their purview and they're going to end up spending a lot of unbillable time figuring it out.

The worst thing to do is to give the artist conflicting or false information about what you need and how you need it. I've had this happen- the programmer and project manager give me restrictions on the deliverables and method of delivery that I know aren't necessary, only to change the requirements after I've already gone out of my way to deliver the assets in the method they prescribed originally. If you realize you made a mistake or need to change the protocol after the fact, that's okay, but just be prepared to compensate the artist for their time if it's something that's not their fault.

Hope this answered your question!  Beer!
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joseph ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2014, 03:26:24 PM »

This is definitely a real concern, but I don't think (unless your game has very unique technical challenges) that it has any solution other than 'communicate with your artist.' Write clearly what you need -- provide diagrams. Explain jargon or terminology the artist may not know. Offer all relevant information to the artist -- if they're drawing a frame by frame attack animation, show them the WIP hitbox for the attack -- etc.

The short list of expectations I have of a client are as follows:
  • Clearly express what you need and why -- be it paperdoll pieces, specific animation lengths, fixed resolutions, bone based animations, or whatever
  • Listen to an artist's questions and requests (and be willing to research them if you don't know *their* jargon)
  • Dont work with people who aren't strong (enough) communicators.
  • In the event that you do have very specific technical constraints (typically owing to some kind of advanced or exotic shaders and rendering techniques, or procedural generation, or whatever), you should write a concise, detailed guide about the kinds of inputs an artist needs to provide.
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Amethyst
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2015, 11:43:57 PM »

I'm not experienced with working with artists(or much in game development in general), but I believe your concerns should be focused on the bounds of what you're actually trying to accomplish. That is to say, it will depend on the context of the problem at hand. In general, if you need, say for example, a character to run in a certain way on flat ground. They could animate this in their own way and refer to you for feedback. If there are any dynamic variations involved(say the character's feet raise individually with elevation and general inconsistencies within the environment), then you should be working more closely with them to ensure that what they're developing will fall in line with the algorithms you've developed to allow that sort of bone-based animation.

There are many scenarios you could go into and the software we create is about as complex as it comes in terms of the variables that need to be considered throughout. It should really boil down to effective communication so that you can both be aware of each other's strengths and weaknesses, and more importantly what both of you want to accomplish.

This all may be very redundant but I hope it's helped.
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bdsowers
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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2015, 04:21:09 PM »

This is definitely a real concern, but I don't think (unless your game has very unique technical challenges) that it has any solution other than 'communicate with your artist.' Write clearly what you need -- provide diagrams. Explain jargon or terminology the artist may not know. Offer all relevant information to the artist -- if they're drawing a frame by frame attack animation, show them the WIP hitbox for the attack -- etc.

This. It's just about effective communication, really. There are steps you can take to make your communication more effective:
  • Create a living document that has the most up-to-date guidelines. You don't want things scattered over various e-mail conversations
  • If you can, don't make a code framework that relies on file naming conventions. It doesn't matter how simple they are or how detailed you are, those naming conventions are going to get broken and lead to subtle but catastrophic issues. I've never been on a project where this went smoothly.
  • The level of detail your artist needs depends on their closeness to the project. An external contractor may want an art list that lists literally every asset needed. Someone deeply ingrained in the project from day 1 may just need you to say, "Hey, I need a new enemy sprite."
  • If you have a specific visual style you're shooting for, reference images from a game/movie/comic/whatever are a very good idea if possible. I often work with artists that go out and find reference points for inspiration before touching any art.
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pikpiak
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2015, 11:52:21 PM »

From an artist perspective, it's all about limitations, so you should lay down some technical limitations and let the artist play within the boundaries.

Basic specs include:
- Packed spritesheet size limit
- Sprite sequence naming conventions
- Standard/Dynamic sizes for each sprite
- Pivot settings
- Image settings in engines

It's always better to let them handle the technical steps as well( packing/importing/animation timings ), opens up more possibilities.

Drawn over screenshots help a lot to convey if you are having difficulties explaining, but nothing beats face to face communication.

Hope this helps :D
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bdsowers
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« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2015, 07:19:24 AM »

From an artist perspective, it's all about limitations, so you should lay down some technical limitations and let the artist play within the boundaries.

Basic specs include:
- Packed spritesheet size limit
- Sprite sequence naming conventions
- Standard/Dynamic sizes for each sprite
- Pivot settings
- Image settings in engines

It's always better to let them handle the technical steps as well( packing/importing/animation timings ), opens up more possibilities.

Drawn over screenshots help a lot to convey if you are having difficulties explaining, but nothing beats face to face communication.

Hope this helps :D

I agree and disagree with certain points of this.

It certainly is very much about limitations. And if your system has technical constraints, you *have* to let the artist know. And sometimes you're going to get pushback on that - an artist is going to want to push your texture budget or your frame count to make good art. There's often a negotiation step where you two go back & forth to find a common ground for the best possible game. Sometimes this does involve actually changing the tech to support the artist's vision. Expect a conversation.

I actually disagree about letting them handle technical steps. Some artists don't want to go anywhere near that. Some artists just don't have the technical know-how. Sometimes the constraints of your system make it more efficient for you to handle it yourself. You need to find out what your artist is comfortable with and go from there. Again, expect another conversation. Smiley
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b2thec
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2015, 11:18:55 AM »

From the way you word stuff in your question, I can see the problem already.

"and the rules of how this can be applied gently into the game engine." Uh... Huh?
"As a programmer, I have a very technical view of how things are working together." Whazuh? Things?

You must be clear in how you speak. These sentences are very vague in what you are trying to convey. If the people that reading your post are having a hard time understanding your exact question about why artists don't understand your questions, then there is a problem. Talk to people about what you want as if they have no idea how anything works. Don't say "applied gently into the game engine". Say exactly what you mean by that. Are you talking about how you are using the 64X64 sprites in the 64X64 tiled background and that's how they should fit? Make it specific.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 05:39:08 PM by b2thec » Logged
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