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[s0]

MM has an interesting story with interesting characters and OoT is a damsel trope game like the rest of the Zelda and Mario games, w/o much of a story and w/o characters (almost).

oot is a nice story about coming of age and loss of childhood innocence that really resonated with me at age 10. its a "kiddy" story about typical kid themes but its very well told and not corny like these stories often are and doesnt shy away from some "darker" aspects. i can still enjoy it on some level because it reminds me of how i felt about it as a kid.

oot is also one of THE games (outside of the rhythm genre) that really puts music front and center which is a big plus. the ocarina is a great mechanic and the game has a really cool soundtrack (imo one of the best game soundtracks of the era) that is totally "spot on" and captures the atmosphere of the different locations to an extent that i haven't seen in many other games. the use of dynamic music is also pretty neat.

oot also did some new stuff when it came out. pretty much set the standard for 3d action/adventure games with the lock on, circlestrafing and autoplatforming.

[Razz]

(OoT is better)

get out.

I genuinely think oot is the better game because it feels like a more complete experience

I have the same problem with mm that I have with wind waker; the game doesn't feel like a complete adventure. in ww the problem was that they threw in a tediously long fetch quest towards the end, and the dungeon design was uncharacteristically unpolished for a zelda game. in mm the game gets into this kinda boring rhythm where you find an area, solve some kind of convuluted puzzle sequence and get to the dungeon. there's not much variety to it, whereas in oot the world was less rigid so you didn't really know what to expect. for example finding out that the shadow temple was hidden away in the graveyard was a really cool thing that's not really present in mm

oot also had more dungeons, more unique environments, better dungeon design and a cool story arch.

I think the reason people put mm on such a high pedastle is because it's a much more immersive world. which, okay I can understand but to me there's much more to a good game than that

[gimymblert]

You are entitle to your opinion but I don't get some argument, less rigid? it's collect stuff to unlock stuff fetch quest all the way around, the mask quest have immersing you in people life to solve them! OOT is super rigid it's village-fetch quest-dungeon-plot coupon, barely an adventure. In MM you have stuff like the little girl and its father, the skeleton king etc ... on ikana valley that have you more involve than follow the plot coupon. I'm sure at all OOt had more variety in environement and the story arch is damsel in distress, just one side story like the anju quest is stronger than the entire oot arc of "look it's gordon freeman all the way to the end". The only thing is that there is more "dungeon" in a traditional way. I wouldn't compare it to WW at all, WW is as oot as it can be, useless empty overworld, fetch quest npc, long collectible sequence, follow the plot coupon plot, the only great things outside the visual in WW was the final ganon speech about the wind, none are gameplay.

[ProgramGamer]

Hey, the combat in WW was great, and I love that hole on outset with the enemy rush challenge.

[gimymblert]

It's the same combat as in any other zelda save for the awesome impact sound effect and the quick time events they perfected in TP

[vinheim3]

The combat in WW was pretty much standard Zelda combat, but what set that game apart was some of the best enemy configurations and movements/ai. Of the 3d Zelda, I felt more threat from them than any other,hero mode or not.

Btw I agree that LA is fantastic, but still think OoX was an improvement. I miss how it actually had puzzles like the 5 gold leaves, the 3 enemies to beat in order, and eagles dungeon is still a masterpiece in maze design, but OoX had better music and customizability through rings. Glad to see the 8th dungeon of each took one of the 2 bigger concepts of eagles

[rj]

ww is the best zelda, mm is pretty great, the 2D ones are all worth playing, and every other 3D one is polished but unexciting (yes, even and especially oot, which was amazing for its time but is such a huge example of "has not aged well." it's not Bad, today, and the 3DS remake is worth checking out, but it's not nearly as good as any other 3D zelda since imo)

[ProgramGamer]

For those who haven't seen it yet. Somehow.

[Rat Casket]

Since we are talking about Zelda I'm going to go ahead and say that God of War is overrated as shit. All of them.

[ProgramGamer]

Since we are talking about Zelda I'm going to go ahead and say that God of War is overrated as shit. All of them.

Agreed. Still decent games but not that great imo.

[s0]

btw im a big fan of crpgs but i do not like party-based isometric rpgs that much (yes that includes baldurs gate, planescape etc). too much micromanagement in them and often it feels too much like im playing a tactics game and managing a squad rather than a rpg.

i dont really think those games are "overrated" tho so probably slightly OT

[Manuel Magalhães]

Little Big Planet is overrated. The audio-visuals are cute and the level sharing features are neat, but the game's kinesthesia bothers me because it feels very imprecise and the main character has too little gravity, and this gets even more annoying in the later levels, which have some grave design problems.

[Razz]

You are entitle to your opinion but I don't get some argument, less rigid? it's collect stuff to unlock stuff fetch quest all the way around, the mask quest have immersing you in people life to solve them! OOT is super rigid it's village-fetch quest-dungeon-plot coupon, barely an adventure. In MM you have stuff like the little girl and its father, the skeleton king etc ... on ikana valley that have you more involve than follow the plot coupon. I'm sure at all OOt had more variety in environement and the story arch is damsel in distress, just one side story like the anju quest is stronger than the entire oot arc of "look it's gordon freeman all the way to the end". The only thing is that there is more "dungeon" in a traditional way. I wouldn't compare it to WW at all, WW is as oot as it can be, useless empty overworld, fetch quest npc, long collectible sequence, follow the plot coupon plot, the only great things outside the visual in WW was the final ganon speech about the wind, none are gameplay.

you know, maybe I'm just a huge fan of dungeons in Zelda games. I love the dungeons in oot, I think they're varied and great. mm just doesn't reach the same quality imo -- except for stone tower temple which is a masterpiece

but you're right, perhaps I should rethink my views on mm. granted I don't think it's a shitty game or anything, I just like oot more.


I still really really hate the ocean part of the game though

tedious mess

[quan]

yeah MM dungeons are really not that fun. Like most of them aren't terrible but they are pretty boringggggg

[vinheim3]

The only one I noticed was the stone tower one. MM felt pretty disconnected because of its shifted focus but imo, I preferred the sequence of events leading to each dungeon over most zelda dungeons, just one of the elements that really brought life to the MM world, just like the NPCs and their stories, over the usual zelda fare

[gimymblert]

You are entitle to your opinion but I don't get some argument, less rigid? it's collect stuff to unlock stuff fetch quest all the way around, the mask quest have immersing you in people life to solve them! OOT is super rigid it's village-fetch quest-dungeon-plot coupon, barely an adventure. In MM you have stuff like the little girl and its father, the skeleton king etc ... on ikana valley that have you more involve than follow the plot coupon. I'm sure at all OOt had more variety in environement and the story arch is damsel in distress, just one side story like the anju quest is stronger than the entire oot arc of "look it's gordon freeman all the way to the end". The only thing is that there is more "dungeon" in a traditional way. I wouldn't compare it to WW at all, WW is as oot as it can be, useless empty overworld, fetch quest npc, long collectible sequence, follow the plot coupon plot, the only great things outside the visual in WW was the final ganon speech about the wind, none are gameplay.

you know, maybe I'm just a huge fan of dungeons in Zelda games. I love the dungeons in oot, I think they're varied and great. mm just doesn't reach the same quality imo -- except for stone tower temple which is a masterpiece

but you're right, perhaps I should rethink my views on mm. granted I don't think it's a shitty game or anything, I just like oot more.


I still really really hate the ocean part of the game though

tedious mess

Yeah that's okay, in fact I played the game as a regular zelda first too, chaining dungeon, in fact the main criticism when the game was out was about te lack of dungeon too, which we were train to expect ...

Also playing that way leave you underpowered against the final boss which is the best zelda final boss (or boss period), most of people who 100% it had the mask of fierce deity and that made the boss a walk in a park.

I 100% it after beating the final boss, that's only then the social gameplay with mask reveled it's greatness, however the moment where it really hit me was the anju quest, which you finish 5mn between the end of the world, and then you realize that, well, they are doomed and you will go back in time defeating their reunion ... ie that in practice all their struggle will always be for nothing (well until the ending sequence in the 4th day), which kind of really hammer the point of the game, then you start noticing small thing, the grand mother isn't senile at all, she plays it to avoid the awful meal of her son's wife, the zora band'singer still expect the return of her beloved who is definitely dead and the son of the deku butler might be that deku mask you were using, dang!!!

The thing that made the last boss so incredible is that in zelda you are train to be fed with needed supplies as you deplete them. Well there is 5 pots, all give heart, get your shit together bitch, there is multiple way to defeat the boss, find them! Of course it makes great use of the mask! For exemple the first boss pattern was easy, I thought, use fucking arrow because we had similar boss in zelda so obvious! but I depleted arrows! no supplies WHAT? the best was trading magic and live to electrocute the boss when in wrath mode using the power of the zora (if you had magic), pleasure! Nowaday we have stiff gannonfight and while I love kolokoto and ghirahim, well they have very stiff pattern with only "execution" as a mean to defeat them

[oahda]

Of all the Zelda games I've played so far I actually found the final boss of Phantom Hourglass the most challenging and varied.

[ProgramGamer]

Of all the Zelda games I've played so far I actually found the final boss of Phantom Hourglass the most challenging and varied.

*SPOILER ALERT FOR ZELDA PHANTOM HOURGLASS*

And dramatic. Fighting a possessed Linbeck with a constant camera lock on him with Ciela talking to you while you move is pretty intense, especially since fighting to free a Redeemed Linbeck comes in line with your motivation to save the world by defeating Bellum. PH probably has one of the best story arcs of all the Zeldas, and it's up there with Twilight Princess in terms of characters. The main gripe I have with it however is how Tetra is a useless chunk of stone, even after you get her back from the Ghost ship.

[oahda]

Of all the Zelda games I've played so far I actually found the final boss of Phantom Hourglass the most challenging and varied.

*SPOILER ALERT FOR ZELDA PHANTOM HOURGLASS*

And dramatic. Fighting a possessed Linbeck with a constant camera lock on him with Ciela talking to you while you move is pretty intense, especially since fighting to free a Redeemed Linbeck comes in line with your motivation to save the world by defeating Bellum. PH probably has one of the best story arcs of all the Zeldas, and it's up there with Twilight Princess in terms of characters. The main gripe I have with it however is how Tetra is a useless chunk of stone, even after you get her back from the Ghost ship.

*SPOILER ALERT FOR ZELDA PHANTOM HOURGLASS*

And the main gripe most people have is of course constantly returning to the same temple, but I didn't find it that annoying. You keep going to different floors. You barely have to deal with the older floors again except perhaps moving those gems to open doors (which gets easier later on anyway) and you get a warp thingy.

*SPOILER ALERT FOR ZELDA OCARINA OF TIME*

I actually suck at the OoT Ganondorf battle, tho. I keep missing with the bow or get hit by the electricity or jump down. :p So that makes it difficult because I suck and not so much because it's actually that complicated. It's seriously A LOT easier to hit with a bottle than the sword, tho. That much I've established.

I replayed it not long ago, tho, and noticed how awful the camera is during the battle against Ganon. It keeps working against you when you try to get behind him a lot of the time.

[ProgramGamer]

It's seriously A LOT easier to hit with a bottle than the sword, tho. That much I've established.

LOL.