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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperDesignHow to add meaningful choices in Rythm Games?
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Cenovis
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« on: December 29, 2014, 01:39:18 PM »

Hey there,

I'm currently working on a game based on rythm games and I'm trying to find a way to "improve" (or at least add a little twist) to this kind of game. Some may say that these games are just QTE to the max, well that's maybe true so I'm trying to find a way to add meaningful choices for the player.

Has anyone of you heard about different kind of rythm game which not only rely on the technical skill of the player, but also on the use of its brain Tongue ? Do you have any idea how I should try to state the problem to find a solution?

Just a little precision, I'm not speaking about games that use rythm for their inputs (Crypt of the Necrodancer for instance), but more "traditionals" rythm games such as Dance Dance Revolution or Groove Zero.

Thanks for your help and your comments!
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 01:46:12 PM by Cenovis » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2014, 12:15:32 AM »

The most straightforward choice mechanic to add to a rhythm game might be a "push your luck"/"double or nothing" mechanic, by which the player can choose something riskier in exchange for a greater reward.  For example:

  • Having extra, optional notes (like grace notes), where if they player performs them correctly, they get a big bonus, but if they mess up at all, they take a big hit.
  • Allowing the player to place "bets" on sections of the song, or aspects of the performance.  If you perform that section correctly, you get an increased reward, but if you make a mistake you lose your wager.  (This would be a fun multiplayer mechanic, too, where other players can wager on you doing well... or screwing up!)
  • Letting the player repeat sections in a loop for more points each time, but any error erases the score from previous iterations of the loop.

Then you might also want mechanisms that guide the player into wanting these rewards, beyond just "hey more points, cool".  For example, these risky choices might be the only good way to fill up a gauge, and when it fills up something awesome happens.  (Crazy solo time, encore section unlocked, things like that.)  Something to make the player take risks they otherwise might avoid.  ("Oh, this section is hard... but it would fill up the gauge in time for...")

Below are some other potentially interesting mechanics.  (Just for presentation's sake, I'm going to assume a melodic rhythm game, and refer to input actions as "playing notes".  But the choices could respond to many rhythm game types.)

  • Letting the song branch, and letting the player choose, in some manner, which branch to take.  (Insofar as different branches would likely be of different difficulty and reward, this would likewise be a "push your luck" mechanic.)  This would work nicely with loops, too.
  • Letting the player "store up" notes by some mechanism.  Say, holding a trigger button caches notes rather than plays them, and plays them automatically when needed.  This may seem like a cheat, at first, but it itself is a somewhat difficult cognitive task (keeping track of what's in your inventory while still reacting to other stimuli).  (To limit it, say that only one of each action can be cached and punish any additional attempts to cache it; otherwise players could just mash buttons into the cache any time there's a lull.)
  • Many rhythm games map each input action to several different possible outputs (in this illustration, notes).  You can make this explicit, and let the player decide which set of notes corresponds to each input.  (Say, the blue button corresponds to A and B, and the yellow to C and D, or maybe the blue button corresponds to A and E while the yellow button corresponds to B and F.)  The player tries to choose the best combination for each song, according to what they find easy to remember and pull off..  ("Oh, if I choose this mapping, then this hard section just becomes blue four times, yellow two times, green six times; I can do that!")


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SirNiko
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« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2014, 04:09:24 AM »

The Bit Trip games did the optional beat thing to good effect. Flux had a handful of bonus beats to try to earn, while Runner was about collecting as many optional beats as possible for points and to unlock bonus stages (as opposed to simply dodging obstacles).

Final Fantasy Theatrhythm is a straight rhythm game where you tap and slide beats in sequence, but added an RPG system in the background of it. The player can equip skills to influence the level, such as healing spells and defensive abilities to help survive challenging stages or offensive abilities to defeat more enemies during battle stages and thus earn more items as rewards. No matter what you equipped, though, the beats stayed the same, and you could unequip everything and play the game without the RPG gimmick.

It also featured an endless mode that randomly mixed songs into medleys and picked different combinations of commands so that the same songs had several variations. The medley mode offered opportunities to unlock new characters by defeating bosses with the skills you equip.

Parappa the Rapper was more flexible for letting the player interpret the commands. Although you were given simple commands to repeat, you earned more points for changing those commands such as doubling up or repeating commands more times than necessary. With enough effort, the game would open up the level and let you do free-form rapping for extra points.

Game and Wario featured a rhythm game where you had to block enemy projectiles to the beat. One trick in the game was that you could shrug off the projectiles at any time, but only if you do it on a beat, although the game offered no in-game incentive for doing so. I could see a game that uses a similar mechanic, such as forcing the player to insert their own rests (to the beat) to avoid running out of energy during the song.

Also consider the inclusion of single-use powerups the player might buy, unlock, or earn by completing short sequences with no errors. These might help them survive a difficult sequence of the song, refill a depleted life meter, or make a sequence of notes worth extra points at the cost of double penalty for misses.
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Netsu
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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2014, 04:24:43 AM »

While Audiosurf is not strictly a rythm game, I think you can go a similar route, where you have to not only hit the notes or whatever, but also decide which to hit and which to avoid in order to complete some kind of a puzzle.
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baconman
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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2015, 03:05:29 AM »

DDR typically does it in the form of its patternwork. The arrows come in the same patterns whenever you play the song, but the physical interaction can go many different ways, as you vary the execution of them with your body's movements. There's such ridiculous spinaround potential in many songs that you wouldn't normally expect, and even higher-level players have different techniques for handling different kinds of steps.

So, the trick is to allow some variation in the execution, while still focusing on the timing aspect. This is the reason why music simulation games are more QTE than dance games - dance games can be anything you make them to be, but anything where you're playing notes... is something where you're just playing notes.

Closest thing I can think of is some kind of branching stepchart system, where between verses, it begins two different charts, and you can play your choice between the two - but you're still dedicated to that chart for the verse/chorus... or maybe you can change to the other chart, but it drops your combo or somehow penalizes your score.
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WildFactor
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« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2015, 12:39:19 AM »

What we did in our rhythm game is we put a gauge that fill. Each time you successfully press in rhythm, the gauge fill.
If the player click on it, the gauge give him a time duration where every points are 3X.

The player can start the bonus timer even if the gauge is not full, and the player need to think when he should trigger the bonus.
If he trigger the bonus gauge before an intense moment with a lot of point, he will maximize his bonus.

Also in hard more, its very intense, so just looking at the gauge to see if its full is a risk, and clicking on it also.

His meaningful choice: when should I trigger the bonus ?
Small meaningful choice of this kind of game: where I put my finger for the next wave.
Which song should I choose, and which difficulty.

Also this kind of game is a no brain game where you train your muscle memory.
If you add meaningful choices too strong, you will loose people playing for just the enjoyment of the rhythm and the music.
When people dance, they enjoy it, but don't have a lot of meaningful choice Smiley

(keep the meaningfull choice for hard mode and for player who like to score)





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Landshark RAWR
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2015, 01:05:47 PM »

I think dedede drunk dash comes close to a rhythm game with meaningful choice



though there is a specific "route" you need to take for the optimal score
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immersiveGamer
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2015, 10:58:31 PM »

No one has mentioned Sequence?  That game was a blast because it had three separate charts. It was an RPG game and so the charts were mana, defend and cast. Mana always had arrows, defend only had some once in a while when the enemy was attacking and cast only had them when you wanted to cast a certain spell. You could only have one active at a time and had to rotate between them all during a fight. Talk about needing to evaluate risk and return. How much mama do I want to save up? What is the pattern of the attack so I can cast a spell with out taking damage? What spell do I use? Defense, attack, stat? It was a blast save that it used 4 arrows for the directional keys. Made it impossible for !d to do some combos. Changed it so that it was some keys in a single row but then my pinky couldn't handle it. Such cramps and it finally gave up trying to be useful even between breaks ... Will never know what lies behind the hidden boss. But I've gotten side tracked. Look at that game if you haven't for some ideas.

You've said you want players to use their brains and not just be technical. Well the physical part of the game play is quite brain instensive already. The pace is just different. Compare a 4X game to a FPS game. In 4X you are taking in data about your current and world affairs, evaluating descions, and playing long term plans. In the FPS you are taking in a ton of sensory information and some data to make choices about what action should happen in the next fraction of a second. Both require brain use and strategy. But are vastly different ... Guess that doesn't help much. Maybe what you want to think about is how you can challenge your players to use their skills in different ways. Give them more outlets to use their skills and avoid having them excersise a different one. As WildFactor said, 'when people dance they enjoy it'.

Lots of good suggestions so far. Like the branching charts and betting.

[Please forgive all spelling and grammar errors and lacking of punctuation, typing on a mobile device is not pleasant]

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bdsowers
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2015, 04:42:33 AM »

No one has mentioned Rock Band either, which is surprising.

Rock Band had a "rock" mode that would increase your score multiplier considerably, make the game temporarily a lot easier, and just generally look cool. The game allowed the player to choose when to use it. This became a strategic decision - if you could beat the song, you'd use it in a place that optimized the score. If the song was rough, you'd use it in a difficult place to try & ease through.

When added more players to the mix, each player got their own rock mode, and players could juggle who was activating theirs when depending on what the song looked like.
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The Translocator
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2015, 12:37:09 PM »

A platform shooter where everything happens in time with the music- i.e. enemies shoot/moving platforms move- and you can only jump or shoot in time with the music but you can move freely. Also maybe you could do things on the offbeats as well... I don't know. Just something where you jump and shoot and there's musical importance.
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vinheim3
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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2015, 05:51:05 AM »

I'm glad someone mentioned Sequence. It's the simplest way of doing what you request, having players think about other things while hitting notes skillfully, because now you have resources to manage and risk in favour of others.

In addition to the point made about DDR and how positioning can affect how you tackle sequence of notes, games like Guitar Hero sort of do that when you have 5 strings to worry about, but a series that focuses on that concept more is the Project Diva series. The game gives you up to 4 notes representing the face buttons, and you have to either tap or hold them, but the main quirk is that you can also use the positionally-similar dpad buttons to hit those same notes. So now you have to think about alternating between left and right hand on faster songs to hit different sequence of notes quickly. I think this concept of multiple inputs per note can at least slightly increase the layer of thinking required when you play rhythm games and a stream of varying notes come in.
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