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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperTechnical (Moderator: ThemsAllTook)Migrating from AS3/Flash to Haxe - worth it?
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gbelo
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« on: January 05, 2015, 09:04:00 PM »

I've got a game that I've been developing using ActionScript 3 and deploying via Flash. But I'm thinking about migrating the thing to Haxe, which (as I understand) would make deployment more flexible; as of right now, my game is only playable as a SWF mashed into a web browser. I'm not charging for the game, so I don't have any commercial incentive to seeing it run on e.g. Android.. but I'd like to see it happen.

I rely on the Flixel engine in my current AS3 implementation, but there's also HaxeFlixel for Haxe. The scope of the game is also much larger than what's associated with "Flash game." Not counting Flixel itself, I'm looking at just over 10k lines of code (so far). (Of course, this also doesn't include assets, such as graphics, levels, and sound, that wouldn't have to be 'migrated.')

I honestly have no clue what the lifespan of Flash as a game development platform is--whether or not it's doomed to be antiquated soon. Some say the platform's going to die; others say it isn't.

Anyone have any insight on whether Flash will continue to stick around? Anyone with experience developing and deploying with Flash and/or Haxe who can chime in? Anyone use Flash for mobile game development/deployment?
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EdFarage
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2015, 09:21:24 PM »

I have the same exact question.
Though i haven't found a good substitute for starling, which is very good for mobile exporting.
But if we're talking "pure Flash", it might be worth it.
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loudo
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2015, 03:35:15 AM »

Hello,

I've started working on my game Graal Seeker with flash/starling but I was annoyed by the impossibility to make a flash/starling game on Linux. So I've changed for Haxe and the changes were easy. I have some background with Haxe since I've already made one little drawing game in the past and few websites (it's very effective for website, especially when you hate php Smiley ).

If you use an appropriate framework you can handle easily different platforms as a target. Eg: Android, IOS, html5, flash, C++ (native windows, Mac and Linux). You have to know that you have better performances in native targets than in flash. I have good performance in html5 as well. And finally, when you debug you can debug in the flash target because it's still the fastest target to compile to.
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Photon
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2015, 07:22:17 PM »

I use Haxe and OpenFL, a library meant to emulate Flash capabilities if I understand it correctly. Actually, HaxeFlixel runs off of OpenFL. So far, I like it quite a bit. I use FlashDevelop as my IDE (which supports Haxe, despite what the name may imply,) and so far its pretty easy to get something up and running in Flash. Can't speak much to other platforms yet.

You might find this article helpful: http://gamasutra.com/blogs/LarsDoucet/20140318/213407/Flash_is_dead_long_live_OpenFL.php
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EdFarage
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2015, 03:39:01 PM »

All these answers are articles are great.
But one thing i don't get is the reason to migrate to openFL/haxe. Is it just for the multi-platform?
Cause if it is, i would be better off simply switching to Unity then  Shrug
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Photon
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2015, 06:36:05 PM »

All these answers are articles are great.
But one thing i don't get is the reason to migrate to openFL/haxe. Is it just for the multi-platform?
Cause if it is, i would be better off simply switching to Unity then  Shrug
Haxe and OpenFL do not cost money in and of themselves. Unity can cost money depending on what you want to do with it. Lots and lots of money. Hand Money LeftHand Money Left Shocked Hand Money RightHand Money Right

But it really depends on what you want. I guess I thought you wanted a platform similar to Flash, which is what I think OpenFL tries to emulate syntactically. If not, then you may need to explain in more detail what it is you are after.
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gbelo
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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2015, 10:55:47 PM »

Hm. I understand that that cool lil' game Binding of Isaac was originally written in Flash but wound up getting ported to another platform. I recall that one reason was because Flash's controller support sucks hardcore, which I suppose given the platform is understandable.

But in its Flash form, it was a standalone executable. It was deployed as an executable. The most I know how to do for deploying as a standalone executable is to distribute a Flash Player with the game in it. So, I resign myself to embedding it in a website. Is there a better way to package an executable so that it's more.. professional?

[Haxe also has an advantage here in that it can natively compile to executables (among other things).]
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Richard Kain
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2015, 08:22:57 AM »

But one thing i don't get is the reason to migrate to openFL/haxe. Is it just for the multi-platform?
Cause if it is, i would be better off simply switching to Unity then  Shrug

The advantage of HAXE + OpenFL is that you remain native to the Flash development environment. Unity 3D is its own engine, doing its own thing. And while it does it well, it is not the same environment as Flash AS3. Anyone used to developing in Flash will be much more comfortable with HAXE and OpenFL than they would be with Unity. Also, most of the more popular Flash dev tools play nice with HAXE. (the Flash Development IDE in particular)

I personally use Unity. But I started out developing in Flash, and transitioned over to HAXE for the cross-platform advantages. I really enjoyed my time with it, and the OpenFL project is maintaining support for it.
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InfiniteStateMachine
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2015, 09:01:49 AM »

I love haxeflixel. Another thing to consider is that haxeflixel is a active project and as such it's like the original flixel with a lot of refinement. The library changes and language features make it really nice (real enums for instance).

I love haxeflixel and haven't looked back at flash.
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Richard Kain
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« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2015, 08:24:40 AM »

I love haxeflixel and haven't looked back at flash.

OpenFL and it's accompanying game engines and libraries (such as HaxeFlixel) are still being supported and developed by an active and enthusiastic community. Flash, on the other hand, is being left out to die by Adobe. I don't think anyone is particularly keen on supporting Flash at the moment. It's very sad, especially for us old-school AS3 developers.

But, no sense looking back, I suppose.
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darkhog
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2015, 01:18:04 AM »

I'd say it's worth it, especially Haxe can compile not only to swf but HTML5 and "real" executables as well.
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« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2015, 09:31:35 AM »

Thanks for the Gamasutra article Photon; very informative. You sound like a fellow Stencyler.  Well, hello there!
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Photon
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« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2015, 10:11:36 AM »

Thanks for the Gamasutra article Photon; very informative. You sound like a fellow Stencyler.  Well, hello there!
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2015, 10:58:36 PM »

This is a very good question. Flash is obviously not going to disappear tomorrow, but its days are probably numbered, for many reasons. I'm personally removing it from all of my computers except my gamebox on principle alone. But you know why I'm keeping it on that box? Because it's really sproinking good at powering games! If you're comfortable with it already, why jump ship now?

Now let's talk about Haxe. I haven't used it but based on what I've heard my impression (for the $0.02 it's worth) is that it's simply too ambitious to really deploy to all those targets without a hitch. Too good to be true, once we move beyond Hello World and start making real things. Yes, it's similar to AS3 and you can use "Flixel", but I suspect (again this is just my hunch, I have no evidence to back this up) that it's JUST similar enough to throw you a curveball when you least suspect it. Ain't nothing like the real thing. Haxe is fascinating and I applaud the effort, but I don't think it will stick around.

So, what will? I have no clue. Could be JS. Maybe Elm. Maybe even some weird native thing like Rust or Jai. It's too soon to tell. As a long-time code monkey who tried but could never quite grok AS3, I'm sitting on the sidelines with C again while all these newcomers duke it out  Cheesy.

That said, you should totes play around with Haxe and see if it's to your liking! But seriously bro, don't panic. No need to up and sacrifice all your hard-won AS3 knowledge (especially mid-project!) just because Flash might maybe someday fade away and Haxe might maybe someday rise to fill its shoes.

I'm glad I can finally watch YouTube on Linux without giving my firstborn...but Flash is far from dead.
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Richard Kain
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2015, 08:36:28 AM »

Yes, it's similar to AS3 and you can use "Flixel", but I suspect (again this is just my hunch, I have no evidence to back this up) that it's JUST similar enough to throw you a curveball when you least suspect it. Ain't nothing like the real thing. Haxe is fascinating and I applaud the effort, but I don't think it will stick around.

There are curveballs, that much is definitely true. I ran into a few myself while working with Haxe. But the situation isn't quite as dire as you seem to imagine.

Haxe is an open-source language, so it is isn't tied down to a specific company. That alone makes it more reliable than the current version of Flash. (which is maintained by Adobe) And there's also the fact that the Flash-esque abilities of Haxe are simply one extension of its feature set, and not really core to the language at all. Haxe was built to do more than just ape flash, and can be used for numerous other tasks.

But yes, you should expect a few bumps in the road if you want to use Haxe for multi-platform game development. There will be a few wrinkles that you will have to iron out manually if you are making a more complex interactive experience.
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gbelo
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2015, 06:38:44 PM »

HaxeFlixel seems to offer some cool things like joystick support.

For my own project, I think that creating a new branch that migrates from Flash to Haxe will be the next thing that I take on. The code needs refactoring anyway, so it's a perfect opportunity. First step, of course, is toying around with Haxe, bringing features from the project slowly and figure out whether migration is worth it.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 06:01:20 AM by gbelo » Logged

InfiniteStateMachine
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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2015, 09:05:28 PM »

I love haxeflixel and haven't looked back at flash.

OpenFL and it's accompanying game engines and libraries (such as HaxeFlixel) are still being supported and developed by an active and enthusiastic community. Flash, on the other hand, is being left out to die by Adobe. I don't think anyone is particularly keen on supporting Flash at the moment. It's very sad, especially for us old-school AS3 developers.

But, no sense looking back, I suppose.

The haxe syntax is basically as3 only they fixed many things that were terrible about it (enums for instance). I don't really think of it as a loss because it compiles to flash. It kind of draws some parallels to groovy in that regard.

This is a very good question. Flash is obviously not going to disappear tomorrow, but its days are probably numbered, for many reasons. I'm personally removing it from all of my computers except my gamebox on principle alone. But you know why I'm keeping it on that box? Because it's really sproinking good at powering games! If you're comfortable with it already, why jump ship now?

Now let's talk about Haxe. I haven't used it but based on what I've heard my impression (for the $0.02 it's worth) is that it's simply too ambitious to really deploy to all those targets without a hitch. Too good to be true, once we move beyond Hello World and start making real things. Yes, it's similar to AS3 and you can use "Flixel", but I suspect (again this is just my hunch, I have no evidence to back this up) that it's JUST similar enough to throw you a curveball when you least suspect it. Ain't nothing like the real thing. Haxe is fascinating and I applaud the effort, but I don't think it will stick around.

So, what will? I have no clue. Could be JS. Maybe Elm. Maybe even some weird native thing like Rust or Jai. It's too soon to tell. As a long-time code monkey who tried but could never quite grok AS3, I'm sitting on the sidelines with C again while all these newcomers duke it out  Cheesy.

That said, you should totes play around with Haxe and see if it's to your liking! But seriously bro, don't panic. No need to up and sacrifice all your hard-won AS3 knowledge (especially mid-project!) just because Flash might maybe someday fade away and Haxe might maybe someday rise to fill its shoes.

I'm glad I can finally watch YouTube on Linux without giving my firstborn...but Flash is far from dead.

I can tell you from my personal anecdotal experience that Haxe has lived up to the dream of one codebase/multiple platforms better than anything else I've tried. I've never had the slightest problem with flash targets. Cpp targets are also rock solid. I was blown away that the first time I compiled for android it worked (that didn't happen for me with unity or unreal).

So far it's been the most rock solid cross platform framework I've used. Of course because I use the haxeflixel target it's less ambitious than unity or unreal but nevertheless it's been amazing in that regard.

If all you care about is a flash target then Haxe is a no brainer. Even when you factor in native desktop platforms. Once you move into more esoteric platforms I'm not sure because I haven't tried them.

Interesting note : the vita/android game rymdcapsule was written in haxe. A thin layer was built to support the vita and it worked great.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 09:13:34 PM by InfiniteStateMachine » Logged

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