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[Dorgam]

Hello,

I always wanted to make games, however if you are working alone like me, to make an indie game you have to manage every aspect from Game Programming to Game Marketing and this is frustrating. I used to think managing everything in the game you are making is gonna allow me to make amazing experiences that I always dreamed off but I discovered this is impossible unless I can maintain my focus 24 hours per day!

I am currently looking to join someone who is making a game, maybe the manager rule isn't for me.
What do you think?
Is it really bad working with someone else on their game?
Would you prefer doing everything so you can make sure you made the game you dreamed off? or you would prefer to work with other people?

[gwartney21]

         Well in my opinion i'm currently working alone my self and I can say that yes its hard to stay focused but the main thing for me to keep me going is not to focus on every single aspect but break it down to smaller pieces.So I don't over whelm my self about things that are currently not on my projects to do list. for instance right now i'm working on game assets but i'm not trying to figure out my marketing plan or what i'm going to be programming in the near future i'm focused on getting my assets done so I can move on to the next step.
       
         Now on the other hand to maybe taking and working with some one else can keep you more focused because of the weight of creating the game and getting things done is shared with some one else and you can have some one to fall back on if you get stuck on something or just feel your falling of track you can have some one their to help you stay on track.

         So over all it depends on what you feel more comfortable with either way whether your working with some one or by your self I don't think its a bad thing. If I had a choice I would probably work with a partner just to help lighten the load but since I don't I break things down into smaller junks and work on things as I go and I enjoy what I work on which  also helps me push forward. Hope this helps a bit.

[Mittens]

I'm really struggling with working alone right now.

It's usually no problem so long as I have someone I can show my work to, my system only works if I get to present my efforts to someone who can 1. understand the complexity of it and 2. Seem genuinely interested that I continue.

Right now I feel like I'm devoid of anything that cares this much if I work on my games or not, which makes it extremely hard for me to find any motivation

[knifeySpoonie]

@mittens - This is why we started the Brighton Game collective in our home town small teams working together in one space so there's people to support, nurture, learn off, share expereince and knowledge with etc etc http://brightongamecollective.com/

Maybe you can find a similar type of workspace where you live?

Maybe I should do an article in the business forums about our collective....

[Netsu]

@mittens - This is why we started the Brighton Game collective in our home town small teams working together in one space so there's people to support, nurture, learn off, share expereince and knowledge with etc etc http://brightongamecollective.com/

Maybe you can find a similar type of workspace where you live?

Maybe I should do an article in the business forums about our collective....

Holy shit this is literally the best idea I've heard this year!
I wish there was something like that in my area, but I sure don't have the funds and time to organise it and there are probably only a few people who might be interested... how many people do you usually have during the day?

[knifeySpoonie]

Hey Netsu,

Well we're starting small, so we've taken a office space with 8 desks and the founders(4 of us) are covering costs (we moved in last Monday) we're currently speaking and showing people desks for permanent renters, and will probably have those desks filled in a couple of weeks. If they all get full the plan is to take more office space in this building and expand as opportunities arise and then also offer week/day rates for hotdesks. Also we plan to Host either monthly or fortnightly events where Indies/small teams can come get feedback from one another. run social events, organise lectures from cool artists/programmers/business people (which we'll also stream) and generally try to improve our local community first.

And basically grow and expand I will do a full post in the Business section in the next day or so. Our plan is to expand or technically franchise to other cities/countries if it takes off. (hence why the logo is like it is, so you can just replace Brighton with another city name :D)

[MeshGearFox]

[Mig (@wtfmig)]

I don't think I'd be able to ever work on games with other people because I don't like the idea of something being a success or failure because of decisions other people made.

PS:

[starsrift]

I've come around to the idea that I don't trust anyone else with the stuff.
Even the parts that I'm really, really, shit at.

I'm sure that'll change in the future, but that's where I'm at right now.

[Enhex]

I find working alone and doing everything really hard because I can barely maintain focus, and my experience with trying to create a team is really bad.

I invited 6 non-professional, but with good levels, level designers to join me, 5 said yes and seemed to be very interested. When I asked them to do things they didn't do anything, only 1 of them made 2 tiny test levels. after few days they just started ignoring me. When I asked one of them why he ignored me he said he's "busy", with 100 play hours in the past 2 weeks on Steam, i.e. he's a liar.

My conclusion is that finding truly good partners is really, REALLY hard and time consuming, and the only viable option to take off some of the load is just to pay someone, if you can afford it.

[gwartney21]

I find working alone and doing everything really hard because I can barely maintain focus, and my experience with trying to create a team is really bad.

I invited 6 non-professional, but with good levels, level designers to join me, 5 said yes and seemed to be very interested. When I asked them to do things they didn't do anything, only 1 of them made 2 tiny test levels. after few days they just started ignoring me. When I asked one of them why he ignored me he said he's "busy", with 100 play hours in the past 2 weeks on Steam, i.e. he's a liar.

My conclusion is that finding truly good partners is really, REALLY hard and time consuming, and the only viable option to take off some of the load is just to pay someone, if you can afford it.

I honestly think you are not alone in this i have had my same share of bad groups and people not working and is one of the main reasons I work alone so I know I can get something going until I can afford to pay some one professionally like you mentioned to work with me. All though on the other hand on a side project that I am working on I do have a long time friend that I have been working with but as you said its just truly hard to get some one to stick with it.

[knifeySpoonie]

I find working alone and doing everything really hard because I can barely maintain focus, and my experience with trying to create a team is really bad.

I invited 6 non-professional, but with good levels, level designers to join me, 5 said yes and seemed to be very interested. When I asked them to do things they didn't do anything, only 1 of them made 2 tiny test levels. after few days they just started ignoring me. When I asked one of them why he ignored me he said he's "busy", with 100 play hours in the past 2 weeks on Steam, i.e. he's a liar.

My conclusion is that finding truly good partners is really, REALLY hard and time consuming, and the only viable option to take off some of the load is just to pay someone, if you can afford it.

I honestly think you are not alone in this i have had my same share of bad groups and people not working and is one of the main reasons I work alone so I know I can get something going until I can afford to pay some one professionally like you mentioned to work with me. All though on the other hand on a side project that I am working on I do have a long time friend that I have been working with but as you said its just truly hard to get some one to stick with it.

But on the other hand... did you give them enough reason to work with you. Did you have a game ready, that required levels, that would give instant feedback to them?

I also think asking 6 people is insane? When I have time to mentor someone and help them (so they will help me) It's usually a one on one thing, they take up a lot of my time, simply because I'm trying to help them improve, what I gain back is a long term friend and hopefully collaborator. If I randomly asked 6 people just to go off and make stuff I'd feel like I was taking the piss.. I'd not have enough time to mentor them or improve them..

If it's an equal partnership however this is another matter. If Person A is an Artist, and Person B is a Programmer and person C is a designer... all relatively equal in experience, then you're much more likely to get along well and work hard for one another. But that requires a certain degree of experience in a studio or in other fields... 

[gwartney21]

I find working alone and doing everything really hard because I can barely maintain focus, and my experience with trying to create a team is really bad.

I invited 6 non-professional, but with good levels, level designers to join me, 5 said yes and seemed to be very interested. When I asked them to do things they didn't do anything, only 1 of them made 2 tiny test levels. after few days they just started ignoring me. When I asked one of them why he ignored me he said he's "busy", with 100 play hours in the past 2 weeks on Steam, i.e. he's a liar.

My conclusion is that finding truly good partners is really, REALLY hard and time consuming, and the only viable option to take off some of the load is just to pay someone, if you can afford it.

I honestly think you are not alone in this i have had my same share of bad groups and people not working and is one of the main reasons I work alone so I know I can get something going until I can afford to pay some one professionally like you mentioned to work with me. All though on the other hand on a side project that I am working on I do have a long time friend that I have been working with but as you said its just truly hard to get some one to stick with it.

But on the other hand... did you give them enough reason to work with you. Did you have a game ready, that required levels, that would give instant feedback to them?

I also think asking 6 people is insane? When I have time to mentor someone and help them (so they will help me) It's usually a one on one thing, they take up a lot of my time, simply because I'm trying to help them improve, what I gain back is a long term friend and hopefully collaborator. If I randomly asked 6 people just to go off and make stuff I'd feel like I was taking the piss.. I'd not have enough time to mentor them or improve them..

If it's an equal partnership however this is another matter. If Person A is an Artist, and Person B is a Programmer and person C is a designer... all relatively equal in experience, then you're much more likely to get along well and work hard for one another. But that requires a certain degree of experience in a studio or in other fields...  

Yea i think that really could have been the big part of the partner ship falling out with a couple of friends because of me coming up with the idea but having a lack of reasoning for them to work with me like you mentioned. I had not really thought about it on that side of it really.
One thing to I for got to post last night that is relevant to what you said. It was a podcast that was talking about why community projects like what I was talking about as far as working with friends or any one goes and fails and it really comes down to poor planing and not having enough of the ital start up work done like you had mentioned.
So over all though thanks for pointing that out either way its a lesson learned from a while back and I know to do things differently this time around when it comes to getting people to work with latter on down the road.

[Enhex]

But on the other hand... did you give them enough reason to work with you. Did you have a game ready, that required levels, that would give instant feedback to them?

I also think asking 6 people is insane? When I have time to mentor someone and help them (so they will help me) It's usually a one on one thing, they take up a lot of my time, simply because I'm trying to help them improve, what I gain back is a long term friend and hopefully collaborator. If I randomly asked 6 people just to go off and make stuff I'd feel like I was taking the piss.. I'd not have enough time to mentor them or improve them..

You got this wrong - I invited the best level designers related to my game that I could find, I'm not suppose to teach them the things they know way better than me.

As for the first question I invited them few weeks before the core of the game was ready, and when it was ready for experimenting they already ignored me.

[knifeySpoonie]

But on the other hand... did you give them enough reason to work with you. Did you have a game ready, that required levels, that would give instant feedback to them?

I also think asking 6 people is insane? When I have time to mentor someone and help them (so they will help me) It's usually a one on one thing, they take up a lot of my time, simply because I'm trying to help them improve, what I gain back is a long term friend and hopefully collaborator. If I randomly asked 6 people just to go off and make stuff I'd feel like I was taking the piss.. I'd not have enough time to mentor them or improve them..

You got this wrong - I invited the best level designers related to my game that I could find, I'm not suppose to teach them the things they know way better than me.

As for the first question I invited them few weeks before the core of the game was ready, and when it was ready for experimenting they already ignored me.

So you invited people to work on your game? what was in it for them though? were you offering them money? a share of profits? some form of benefit to them working on your game? did you know these people personally?

I'm struggling to see why I would work on something just because I've been invited, I mean if there's not much in it for me other than maybe a portfolio piece... why wouldn't I just work on a portfolio piece that would help me find paid employment?? or start a game of my own where I have more input and direction.

Basically I'm asking you "why should I work for you?"

[SheridanR]

I don't think I'd be able to ever work on games with other people because I don't like the idea of something being a success or failure because of decisions other people made.

Solution: be IN CHARGE so that if something sucks, you can have the final word and say "no, the world will never, ever see this as it is." Go read the post-mortem of pretty much any good game ever, particularly any of Valve's games, and you'll see they've used this tactic to enforce quality A LOT.

[peteuplink]

I came back to making video games a year ago after a 20 year break. I found it a struggle and had quite a few moment where I thought "This really isn't for me any more" until I remembered what I got into creating games for in the first place.
I originally got into making games because I found it fun. My first machine was a ZX81 home computer that I got for Christmas in 1982, when I was 8, and the excitement of making something move on your own TV (bearing in mind that TV was pretty much the only visual entertainment medium we had back then) was amazing. I picked up BASIC (with some help from my dad) and started making games.

Before computer game retail outlets there were very few publishers so you had to do your own marketing (well, again, that was my dads side of things). You had to advertise at computer fairs and you had to duplicate your games to tape yourself. This is not massively different to what indies have now, really, time has just replaced the computer fairs with places like IndieDB or Desura (though or course E3 and others still exist) and the tapes have been replaced by digital download.

Anyway, before I become all misty eyed and start boring people, the original point I was trying to make is not to forget that creating something, no matter what it is, should be fun. If you start fretting over things, it'll soon become a drudge and you'll start to dislike it.

Okay, I'm still trying to find my feet, and I've only made one 4 level demo game so far, but I'm enjoying what I'm doing.

[gwartney21]

Anyway, before I become all misty eyed and start boring people, the original point I was trying to make is not to forget that creating something, no matter what it is, should be fun. If you start fretting over things, it'll soon become a drudge and you'll start to dislike it.

I have to agree with you on that I have ditched so many game ideas just because it stopped being entertaining and started to become a chore but because of it i led my self to the idea iam working on now and actually enjoy it.