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[PoV]

I don't see how it's overkill if it only affects those few animations that need it. The rest can be 16x16 since he said it would be ok with variable-sized images.
If it helps prevent some code ugliness/pain I say go for it big-time, I think the net result would be about 3k of "bloat" per frame compared to 16x16 - which is nothing compared to the total size of the game including all media, if it only applies to 10-20 frames in all.

We don't want to cause the poor programmer any unneeded discomfort. Broken artists can be replaced like flat tyres, but the project is in jeopardy if your lead coder runs out of juice

Yeah, the easiest way for a programmer to handle an animation, is for them not to have to handle it.  Technically, if all the frames of animation lived in a 32x32 space, with the player standing on the center (16x16), then BMcC could simply draw everything relative to that center point, and dump new assets in whenever he gets them.

Same thing goes for animation timings.  It'd be much simpler for the programmer if the frames were duplicated to represent an extra frame delay.

That is, unless the artist was writing a file for the offsetting and timings for them.  Though an artists time is best spent in the art application.

This approach on the surface is frowned upon, since it appears to be fat.  However, you can recover the space, and perhaps do even better by writing a tool.  The tool would look at all the frames, clip them to their smallest size, calculate the offset to where they would have been (before clipping them), and remove duplicates.  Nice and easy.

[PoV]

Everything else is being coded with EXTREME attention to the long term ramifications in mind.)

That's good to hear.  Opportunities are an interesting beast. 

[Derek]

I am convinced!  I think the best way is to just leave those animations separate then, at 32x32.  With everything else at 16x16.

[Dan MacDonald]

So this was a big mistake I've made devloping my own games that I wouldn't want to repeat. Assuming that the content is going to be a relatively fixed target. In my experience things like animations and items end up changing a lot over the course of the project. Especially in a case like this where so many people are contributing content.. what you really want to do is provide an easy way to get new content (like character animations, items + item animations) into the game so you don't have to worry about it.

A little xml file that someone could do along with the animation frames so you wouldn't have to hardcode everything and re-compile the changes ever time. Because, believe me, as the content grows it becomes more and more of a hassle until it gets to a point where you don't even want to add necessary things because it's such a drag, let alone cool little things like idle animations.

an example XML.. (off the top of my head)
<Character name="player">
   <Animation action="climb">
      <image relPath="climb.bmp" cellHeight="16" cellWidth="16"/>
      <frames>
         <frame imageIndex="0" xOffset="0" yOffset="0"  frameDelay="3"/>
         <frame imageIndex="1" xOffset="0" yOffset="-3" frameDelay="3"/>
         ...
      </frames>
   </Animation>
</Character>

If you could just write a loader and a playback mechanism in the game that could support something like that then you would make it WAY easier on yourself to add new content and you could offload more of it onto the volunteers :D.

[Derek]

It's almost embarrassing (to whom, I don't know) how awesome and potentially enlightening this project is.  I'm speaking way to soon, but if I had seen this thread when I was starting out making games I would have soiled myself with excitement.

[BMcC]

BUT NO PRESSURE AMIRITE 

EDIT:  Yeah, I agree!  I'm totally excited, albeit mixed with a bit of anxiety.

[Madgarden]

I've a thought about the gameplay in different areas... would it be too divergent to consider having a special character action available for these different areas?

For instance, in the Impossible Mission area, Mr. Balderson could do the IM flip from the game for jumping over robots, or have the search/hack ability for console. If there end up being a Bruce Lee level, then our hero could do the running sidekick that Bruce does in the game. Etc.

Just a thought.

PS. I'm for some animating as well, if this thread craziness slows down enough for me to catch my breath and grab onto something in my minimal spare time.

[Xion]

Wow, this thread got big.

Glad you guys liked the animations . He's a very fun guy to animate.

Question:
When the character jumps and the cieling's too low, will he bounce back down or will he act like he just reached the peak of his jump and descend with acceleration from a speed of nilch? I prefer games with the latter, so you can still make smal gap-jumps but won't be able to cross a big chasm. At the same time, that comes with a cost to realism.

And for climbing on ceilings, maybe have it so that Baldy is his full upright length when moving (swinging monkey-bar style) but kind of pulls himself up when still, so you'd get hit by tall enemies when they go under you if you're moving.

Or would you rather just have him crawl along the cieling?

That grappling thing at the top of the mockup...will it kill on touch or grab him and drop him down the pit? Or just hold him still for a moment giving something else a chance to hit him?

1 more Q:
Will there be "good" or neutral NPCs that help the player? I think it'd be cool if in a few (one) scenes the player had to help an NPC go along a possibly predetermined course so it could hit a switch opening the way to the exit door. Like parallel but seperate paths.
Or maybe the player could collect treasures and return to a "shop" screen to buy things like 1ups and...stuff.
Or maybe wild animals that attack/destroy other enemies and damage baldy...?

Just some ideas, but I guess I'm getting way too far ahead, though.
I'm retarded when it comes to technical and programing stuff. See? I didn't even spell programming right. But I'll be glad to help in any way I can. If I can...
Can I do a death anim...
Pleeeeaase?

Woo, new post.

Yo, MadG! That would be cool! And have him swing like tarzan (or DK Jr.) in the forest levels, and...uh...pick up/throw rocks in the caves...?

[Bezzy]

  Feature creep already?

Ideas should be welcome and all that, but I'm just looking forward to the first build, and giving feedback on that. Getting a solid foundation for controls is key, I reckon. You can add all the stuff you like, but it won't make up for a ropey core mechanic.

[lowpoly]

It's almost embarrassing (to whom, I don't know) how awesome and potentially enlightening this project is.  I'm speaking way to soon, but if I had seen this thread when I was starting out making games I would have soiled myself with excitement.

this is quickly becoming a true MONSTER thread

Anyway, you're right on this is fantastic for indie devs young and old to actually see the development of a game unfold before their very eyes. Def got me inspired! Would love to see at some point a postmortem of sorts, maybe per milestone? What's working, what isn't, and what's planned for the next build.

[Madgarden]

Yes, feature creep is definitely a trap to be avoided. That's why I'm just throwing the idea out there in simple fashion. With that many screens and themes, it just seems to fit.

Ooh, speaking of traps... I wonder what a "feature creep" trap would look like, animated.

[Xion]

Ok, then, sorry.

I'm new to all this "game creation" stuff. That's prob'ly why I never finish (or start) anything.

[Bezzy]

Ok, then, sorry.

I'm new to all this "game creation" stuff. That's prob'ly why I never finish (or start) anything.

No worries. There's nothing wrong with being excited about a project, and having explosions of ideas is a completely natural side effect of that. But trust me: you don't want to be in a position where you're biting off more than you can chew, and then not giving each element of a design its due focus. I've been in this position more than a few times: at first, it's a visceral indulgence, but it eventually catches up with you.

Restraint. Elegance. Doing a lot with a little. These are design principles which are learned the easy way, or the hard way, but are always learned one way or another.

I am a bit drunk.

[Derek]

For instance, in the Impossible Mission area, Mr. Balderson could do the IM flip from the game for jumping over robots, or have the search/hack ability for console. If there end up being a Bruce Lee level, then our hero could do the running sidekick that Bruce does in the game. Etc.

I think Prom was definitely interested in level specific stuff!  Rope swings, conveyor belts, etc.  Not sure about adding something like a sidekick or anything else that fundamentally changes the way the player moves (unless there's a very good explanation for it).  That could get really confusing.

Anyway, you're right on this is fantastic for indie devs young and old to actually see the development of a game unfold before their very eyes. Def got me inspired! Would love to see at some point a postmortem of sorts, maybe per milestone? What's working, what isn't, and what's planned for the next build.

After each milestone we should discuss what the next milestone is going to be and then I'll start a new thread that summarizes what we've discussed and what we need.

In the meantime, does anyone want to knock out the remaining basic animations?  I'm finding myself in a bit of a time crunch...

[Dan MacDonald]

I'll do another stand-in tonight. I'm good for about one a night, any more and I'll OD.