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[JasonPickering]

So I was trying to design a puzzle platformer game, similar to the mario vs donkey kong or Toki Tori series. I am looking at basically the minimum that's needed to make the game fun. So basically I had an idea where you were a farmer who needed to grab the Turnip and get it to the basket, but this isnt really a mechanic as its still the basis of getting the player to the goal, so I need actual mechanics. any ideas folks?

I also created some switch blocks so maybe that would be enough to get actual puzzle levels?

[The Translocator]

Trampolines that make the turnips continue moving in the direction they're moving and bounce.

[gimymblert]

Well I can tell you have already a lot, sokoban did the same with just block and maze, you are a variant of sokoban

However here is teh deal
- can she goes through ladder with a turnip?
- what is teh physics of the turnip
- is there multiple turnip to harvest?

It became a coupled traversal game:
- moving the character to the turnip
- moving the turnip to the basket

Now if turnip and character can't follow the same path, you have to figure out how to move them separately, Think the mario VS donkey where you move mario and the little toy to an exit. There is your puzzle.

[valrus]

I think there are three basic categories of mechanics that will help you form puzzles.

1. As mentioned, things that constrain you from carrying the turnip all the time (that is, things that force you to put the turnip down sometimes so that you can't just carry the turnip back to the basket).

• Movement types that require the use of both of your hands (climbing ladders, shimmying across ropes, climbing ivy, swimming).
• Low-ceilinged areas where you+turnip is too tall, so you have to put the turnip down to fit.
• Barriers that you need to pick up, heavy things that hold down switches, key items to remove specific obstacles.

2. Things that constrain you from just putting the turnip down anywhere (like things that pose a danger to the turnip).

• An animal -- say, a pig -- that wants the turnip, and will eat it if you set it down somewhere where the pig can go.  (So on the same platform if there's nothing in between them, or on platforms connected by ramps and stairs, but not platforms connected by ladders/ropes/trees.)
• Another animal that *can* climb, but still likes turnips, like a raccoon.

3. Things that move the turnip without you carrying it (the aforementioned trampolines, conveyor belts, pendulums, strong currents, something like that).

[valrus]

A few more ideas:

• Other plants that you can harvest and use, or plants that you can plant (like beanstalks you can climb, cactuses as barriers, something edible as a distraction...).
• Maybe harvesting plants (turnip or otherwise) leaves a hole (like Lode Runner), which you can't get across, but if a pig or raccoon falls in the hole you can walk across them.
• Along those lines, an animal that you can't step across, like a porcupine.
• A friendly animal (like a dog) that you can use to protect the turnip.

I kind of like the idea of keeping it minimal by constraining it to things that might be on a farm (crops, pigs, dogs, etc.) and actions that a farmer might do (sow, harvest, etc.).

[Ashkin]

why not make the interaction more interesting? right now it's just reskinned 'put ball in hole'. have different kinds of seeds that you plant in fertile soil rather than gathering - one makes a tall tree you can climb up, another makes a turnip you can use to fill gaps, etc. you could add another layer by requiring a till to make patches of bare soil fertile.

[gimymblert]

So I was trying to design a puzzle platformer game, similar to the mario vs donkey kong or Toki Tori series. I am looking at basically the minimum that's needed to make the game fun. So basically I had an idea where you were a farmer who needed to grab the Turnip and get it to the basket, but this isnt really a mechanic as its still the basis of getting the player to the goal, so I need actual mechanics. any ideas folks?

I also created some switch blocks so maybe that would be enough to get actual puzzle levels?

People proposing MORE mechanics 

[valrus]

So I was trying to design a puzzle platformer game, similar to the mario vs donkey kong or Toki Tori series. I am looking at basically the minimum that's needed to make the game fun. So basically I had an idea where you were a farmer who needed to grab the Turnip and get it to the basket, but this isnt really a mechanic as its still the basis of getting the player to the goal, so I need actual mechanics. any ideas folks?

I also created some switch blocks so maybe that would be enough to get actual puzzle levels?

People proposing MORE mechanics 

Not directly answering the switches question, and instead answering the first question, is intended as a politer way of saying "Yuck, switches".

[J-Snake]

The key is a set of mechanics with deep implications, something that scales well by its own instead of relying on adding specialized mechanics to keep it fresh. It is comparable to linear algebra in some respect. The more orthogonal the mechanical elements the more puzzles they can span. So the main work is actually finding orthogonal mechanics until you are satisfied with the puzzle space they span. Of course it is easier said than done but it is important to see that analogy. For example if you add 2 different kind of switches to your game but one switch can be easily simulated by the other then you may end up with a system that doesn't scale well and the puzzles become one sided.

I am creating games with that "orthogonal purity" in mind. If you have trouble finding mechanics I suggest to play some puzzle games, even when most of them aren't that great. The important thing while playing is to question every introduced mechanic in the game. Each time a new mechanic is introduced validate its purpose, try to get an understanding on what type of puzzles it can add to the game. That way you will establish a pool of ideas you can benefit from.

[JasonPickering]

So this whole idea came about from watching video of Captain Toad. That got me thinking about the player carrying turnips all over the place. I think we nailed down some good things here and something I completely missed was the idea of the player carrying the turnip and the player empty handed as two different entities. I think pushing that more would create a good foundation to start building puzzles on.

Player empty handed
- Faster
- lighter

player with turnip
- slower
- heavier

I think making paths the player cant take with the turnip and paths the player can only take with the turnip key. I am also thinking that a top-down view would work better as it seems with the platformer there can be a lot of wasted space. so more Adventures of Lolo. example from an older mockup

I am also thinking of locking it to a grid, as the throwing mechanic has been very finicky when throwing it in an exact spot. so a turnip throw would be 2 tiles away from the player, meaning the player could throw it across one tile obstacles.

and then also create paths (Perhap weak bridges) that cant handle the turnip there by locking the player out of those areas while walking, and also if I added enemies a slower movement would mean dodging might not be an option. and then alternatively adding things where perhaps the player needs to be heavier for certain areas.

[gimymblert]

I think a sidescroller offer more opportunity for gameplay with minimal element (gravity, more obvious what path you can take without a turnip like ladder, etc..), but if you feel more comfortable with top down, its your game.

[JasonPickering]

well I originally wanted to try extremely small levels like in my original screenshot. I worry about the player being able to fit into smaller areas.

[gimymblert]

oh okay

[Ishi]

This really interests me. I think it would be a shame to go top down and lose the aspect of gravity - it's so useful for creating one-way paths, and the action of throwing the turnip across gaps or over obstacles seems like a more natural fit.

Either way the idea of differing the movement when carrying a turnip (or another item?) is great. It reminds me of Pushover on the Amiga - when carrying a domino you were slower. Importantly, carrying a domino off the edge of a ledge resulted in you dropping the domino, which could then fall onto another and be destroyed. You could do something like this where you drop the turnip after falling off a ledge, and the turnip has a limited drop height before it's destroyed. Or maybe in the split second after walking off a ledge and falling, you can throw the turnip - thus getting the turnip across a two-tile gap, but falling in the process.

I feel like when I've tried to design games like this in the past I've gotten really bogged down in dull mechanics because I don't tend to thing in an abstract way. Like my Ludum Dare game Princess Chardonnay in Bomb Kingdom (which was for the minimalism theme, and I was aiming to have a basic set of core mechanics similar to what you said in the first post). It was ok for 10 levels but I struggled to get any more out of it. What if the player could stand in mid air on the edge of a ledge (like the cubes in Catherine) when not holding the turnip? Suddenly traversing a simple environment could have a lot more possibilities.

Kinda just thinking out loud here. This kind of design really gets my brain working!