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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperBusinessDealing with "We own your Soul" IP clauses in employment contract?
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Pockets
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« on: February 08, 2015, 08:28:23 AM »

Hi all,

I've been working on some stuff while out of work. I've now got a job that starts soon but it's got a "we own all IP on anything relevant" clause and as far as I can get them to admit, their idea of "anything relevant" is "any software".

Has anyone got any tips on how to talk them into signing something saying "this isn't relevant under that clause, you keep the IP" ? As it's a fairly small company that has no connection to games, I'm sure I'm making this a bigger deal than it really is, but it's the sort of thing I really don't want to have come back to haunt me as I'm dreadful with paperwork so the idea of lawyers and such getting involved is scary. Smiley
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knifeySpoonie
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2015, 09:07:40 AM »

Soooooo...

I had this when I worked at Sega and it covered anything Creative in theory.. We had a process that involved Your Lead, then the CEO and Financial director of your business signing a waiver on a piece of work..Then it was sent to Sega Europes Legal team and CEO to either ok or Veto... the process took us around 6weeks and came with stipulations that protected them. But was relatively painless to do. You fill in a form and send it to HR they then deal with it and ask you questions if they're worried something won't get through or might be a conflict of interests.

Ultimately they won't just steal peoples work because their reputation among employees would become garbage, but they may veto you from selling something as a full product etc..

Your options I guess are these..

1. don't sign it, and look for another Job

2. see if they have a process for "other business interests" if they do sign it the deal, and deal with the veto process whenever you want to sell something or work freelance on anything else etc.

3. Ask them to waive specific projects before you sign so you can finish work that's already in progress and sign if they agree to it.

4. sign it, have a family member be the main name on any side project you intend to sell. one friend who will remain nameless and his former company in the dark used to publish games through his wifes name..



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Pockets
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2015, 09:24:35 AM »

Thanks for the tips. I signed it because, well, I need the money.

What I've done is put the stuff I've been working on to one side (so I can show I've not worked on it while working there, if necessary) and started working on something else that's a lot smaller to use as a 'test run', to learn the processes and whatever kind of restrictions they might try and put in place & see if there's anything I wouldn't want to subject the project I've been working on for the past few months to.

I don't think it'll be a big deal because the company isn't a games one so there's not really any direct conflict with what they do, I'm just rather paranoid.
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Columbo
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2015, 12:34:22 PM »

The last couple of companies I've worked at (small to mid independent games developers) have given permission for me to work on side projects.

It's not clear to what extent you've pestered them to give an exemption. You say it's a fairly small company, that probably works in your favour because there won't be huge layers of bureaucracy between you and a decision. Just ask nicely, make it clear it's very important to you, that it's no threat to their business, let them know that it sharpens your software skills, and get something in writing (an email will probably do).
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oodavid
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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2015, 12:57:41 PM »

Yeah, just ask for permission, I think the main concern with these clauses is to stop you from using your work with your employer in parallel with a personal project; so if you were tasked with writing a beautiful ragdoll kinematics system for your employer and decided to release a game with similar ragdoll features they'd not be too happy.
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« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2015, 09:58:22 AM »

As has been mentioned, try asking for permission first. That said, just because they aren't involved with games (and assuming they don't want in the future either) doesn't mean they couldn't put other reasons to discourage you from doing that. Off the top of my head:

1) Many employers argue that they pay you to exercise your knowledge in a given field. In this sense, anything you do about software would qualify.

2) Employers may argue that they want you to rest outside of work hours to avoid fatigue. This means not doing anything that could be considered related to what you do in your job (e.g. programming, or ideally even staying away from computers as much as you can).

Whether those qualify as reasonable or not to you is a different matter.
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