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[s0]

the weirdest thing is that people keep getting hype for molyneux games. after 15+ years of this youd think gamers would get a clue

[Christian Knudsen]

Do they really, though? Sure, a lot of people supported his kickstarter, but they were pretty much just expecting a modern version of Populous, which shouldn't have been all that hard for the man to deliver.

I think the press is too eager to buy into his claims, probably because they make good headlines, but I feel that Molyneux has been a joke for quite some time now (the Molydeux parody really cemented that), with the people that know of his history not taking much of what he says serious anymore.

[peteuplink]

This is pretty spot-on:





He's already doing this now -- talking about his next game The Trail/Trial in interviews and video blogs about the poor state of Godus!

Pretty much spot on... He's been at it for years. I still stand by my original view that the RPS interview was unprofessional, but there's no denying the fact that Molyneux's own actions have brought on much of what's going on right now.

[oahda]

the weirdest thing is that people keep getting hype for molyneux games. after 15+ years of this youd think gamers would get a clue

how many of them are actually aware of this independent guy tho or just seeing the company or even just the game itself, being ignorant even as to what studio is making it

[s0]

Do they really, though? Sure, a lot of people supported his kickstarter, but they were pretty much just expecting a modern version of Populous, which shouldn't have been all that hard for the man to deliver.

I think the press is too eager to buy into his claims, probably because they make good headlines, but I feel that Molyneux has been a joke for quite some time now (the Molydeux parody really cemented that), with the people that know of his history not taking much of what he says serious anymore.

the milo thing also generated a lot of hype iirc

the weirdest thing is that people keep getting hype for molyneux games. after 15+ years of this youd think gamers would get a clue

how many of them are actually aware of this independent guy tho or just seeing the company or even just the game itself, being ignorant even as to what studio is making it

ya thats possible. also i guess some of them are kids and not aware of his past blunders??

[jiitype]

also i guess some of them are kids and not aware of his past blunders??

Is that even possible? I think most of the 22cans staff used to be at Lionhead

[Christian Knudsen]

He means consumers. The average consumer has no idea who Peter Molyneux is or who makes the games they play.

[jiitype]

Well that makes more sense, I read that too quickly

[s0]

He means consumers. The average consumer has no idea who Peter Molyneux is or who makes the games they play.

that's true, but i meant like "core gamers" who follow gaming news on the internet and shit. molyneux is one of the few recognizable "celebrity" devs out there.

otoh many of these "core gamers" don't even know the difference between developer and publisher so you might be right haha

[valrus]

In addition, there's probably a lot of older people whose main memories of him were his early work.

I think in general people are surprisingly chill about Kickstarter campaigns missing deadlines as long as the developers communicate clearly and regularly why the delays are happening and what's going on behind the scenes. Double Fine, for example, were really only met with widespread anger because of the whole Spacebase DF-9 ordeal. People seem to generally be accepting of Broken Age running over budget and over time because we had clear communication (and a great documentary to boot!) about the process, and the first act was also a good game and pretty much of the size and length that the original kickstarter had pitched. Sure, there are angry people out there, but it only really blew up in Double Fine's face when they angered a lot of people with Spacebase.

That's a really good point.  And I think much of the Spacebase anger was for this lack of transparency; people seemed to be most angry that Double Fine wasn't being upfront about the trouble the game was in, in order to eke out some more sales before shuttering the project.  

I think the other crucial difference is game type.  It's interesting to note that some of these most visible crowdfunding fiascos were intended to be games where deep gameplay is supposed to arise from the emergent interactions of a lot of simulations.  There's no recipe for that, and it's either hit-it-out-of-the-park or fail; it's not really a game type where half-a-game is still a game.

[Dragonmaw]

I'm not getting a very bad impression of him, looking at his answers at least, but I have never really played his games or followed his history. I haven't heard of this game or its campaign at all. So I probably shouldn't say too much. The Sim City thing seemed pretty awful at the time tho – was he involved in that? I know way too little.

Molyneux made a couple of good games back in the day I hear, like Black and White, and populous and stuff. Recently though, he's been famous for promising the greatest games ever, then making games that are just average, like Fable and I think Spore? The main problem people seem to have with this interview is that it harasses him rather than investigates anything. Everyone knows that Molyneux's works are likely to be overhyped.

Spore and Sim City are both related to Will Wright, not Peter  Molyneux, although I don't think Wright was associated with the new Sim City. Wright sometimes over promises but generally delivers.

[s0]

tbh spore is will wrights only real misstep (that i can think of) and even that is sort of ok.

otoh so are molyneux's newer games, he just overhypes them. like fable is a decent action rpg with a neat character progression system, it's just not THE BEST AND MOST REVOLUTIONARY RPG EVER and it doesnt contain half the features he promised haha.

[Christian Knudsen]

That's a really good point.  And I think much of the Spacebase anger was for this lack of transparency; people seemed to be most angry that Double Fine wasn't being upfront about the trouble the game was in, in order to eke out some more sales before shuttering the project.

I think lack of communication internally was also a big cause for the Spacebase debacle. The project lead on Spacebase was JP LeBreton (the game started its life as a prototype made during Double Fine's Amnesia Fortnight -- a few of which get picked up for further development and then whoever had the original idea for the Amnesia Fortnight project continues as lead), and he may very well not have known better when he assured people on the DF forums that they'd continue work on Spacebase and not abandon it. In addition to working on Spacebase, he was also working on an announced game that DF was developing for a publisher. The deal on the unannounced game fell through, and LeBreton was let go along with a dozen other staffers that were working on that game. And with the project lead gone from the company, Spacebase was "cancelled" as well. I really feel sorry for LeBreton. He seems to have been completely thrown under the bus during all of that. Thankfully nobody seems to have directed their anger at him.

[jamesprimate]

slightly off-topic, but however much i dislike the tone of this article, as a developer there are certainly huge things to learn from these various debacles. as valrus notes, a lot of these larger over-promised failures seem to be situations where the concept hinges too much on yet-to-be developed mechanics, so thats a big one. art, assets, etc can be grinded on fairly reliably, so the "notes scribbled on a bar napkin" method that kickstarters usually employ are, eh, tolerable. but developing innovative gameplay mechanics isnt nearly as linear a process and requires not just inspiration and hard work, but lots of time and luck as well.

secondly, sometimes when things really aren't going well, perhaps its just better to recognize that fact, humble yourself, and settle for a conceptually "lesser" product that at least satisfies the backers and hopefully live to dev another day. as with this molyneux situation, the trouble starts when a persons ego wont allow that and they get too far wrapped up into the "this has got to be the most revolutionary best game ever" aspect, which even in the best of circumstances only rarely happens.

in the past, perhaps that behavior was more acceptable, as AAA studios invest years in R&D where scrapping huge projects happens fairly regularly. but when its crowdfuneded money coming from joe and jane doe who slave all day at the saw mill for their gaming bucks, its much less forgivable then Blizzard or whoever faceless corp taking a loss.

btw, yes its entirely possible that i typed this up while staring at myself in the mirror

[gimymblert]

[shinygerbil]

Lol isn't this exactly the opposite of what ethicgaters want? A journalist being unprofessional, personal and subjective?

I see that the questions were occasionally framed in a rude manner, but Molyneux has sold a metric fuckton of snake oil over the years and the questions themselves were deserved.

I can quite readily imagine how the actual telephone conversation would have sounded - and of course it sounds worse written down. And of course Walker didn't pick up the phone and shout "Are you a pathological liar???" as soon as Molyneux picked up. So I don't really know why people are choosing to focus so much over the tone...It sounds more like two guys who actually give a shit, disagreeing with each other, as is their right.

Molyneux is reacting with some surprise I think to hearing these questions from a "mere journalist". But Walker is also just reacting with incredulity at some of the responses. It's a candid conversation. (by which I don't mean "gritty" or "hard-hitting" because it really isn't either of those lol) And I feel Molyneux is still stuck in the "old gamer" mentality, where devs are untouchable gods and journalists are mere regurgitators of facts. (a bit like how gamergimp thinks) so it is unsurprising that he is taken aback.

I don't have any more respect for Molyneux just because he stayed through that; it's the least he could do, and it's not like it was Guantanamo. "What exactly did you do with half a million dollars" is a pretty reasonable question IMO. I'm sure serious financial backers in days gone by have asked equally tough questions as a matter of course, as part of their job. But I doubt he could have got away with the excuses, deflections and shit about apple find a friend.

in short, I've tried to see the reasoning behind why people think this was a terrible interview but, I really can't see it. it's just some uncomfortable questions being asked in a direct manner.

[oahda]

I'm not getting a very bad impression of him, looking at his answers at least, but I have never really played his games or followed his history. I haven't heard of this game or its campaign at all. So I probably shouldn't say too much. The Sim City thing seemed pretty awful at the time tho – was he involved in that? I know way too little.

Molyneux made a couple of good games back in the day I hear, like Black and White, and populous and stuff. Recently though, he's been famous for promising the greatest games ever, then making games that are just average, like Fable and I think Spore? The main problem people seem to have with this interview is that it harasses him rather than investigates anything. Everyone knows that Molyneux's works are likely to be overhyped.

Spore and Sim City are both related to Will Wright, not Peter  Molyneux, although I don't think Wright was associated with the new Sim City. Wright sometimes over promises but generally delivers.

There we are. Someone mentioned Molyneux and Sim City, so I got confused.

[unsilentwill]

the weirdest thing is that people keep getting hype for molyneux games. after 15+ years of this youd think gamers would get a clue

Populous the Beginning is one of my favorite games. I nearly backed Godus, relieved that the pitch sounded fairly reasonable, and excited that he was going back to the genre he invented and knows very well. Being scrutinized by the fans of the genre who are funding him completely seemed to be a good answer to keep him in check, if his humble attitude was to be believed.

If you've followed or read any other interviews, this is just a disaster. Because it's a Kickstarter, he must answer to his fans/funders, because he chose to. Over-promising to build confidence in your project, for profit while forcing your staff to take up that slack is wrong on so many levels.

What people need to understan, is when you Kickstart something it's all about your reputation, your responsibility, your ability to deliver and you promise that to convince people to support you. You risk everything, your team, your project, your money, everyone else's money. If you fail, there are consequences and you as a developer shoulder the blame.

in short, I've tried to see the reasoning behind why people think this was a terrible interview but, I really can't see it. it's just some uncomfortable questions being asked in a direct manner.

"How dare you this man is abused he knows he's wrong you're kicking him down how dare you how dare you" Or to be even more passive agressive...

"I don't know what makes me more depressed, the actual interview and how gross it was, or all the gamers who support it. It ruined my day."

Anyone who wants to hear Molyneux be accountable for this massive project and it's failures are the worst scum of the earth, how dare you, this man is a legend.

Can gamedevs not play the "this is why I want to leave the industry" card every single time something happens. It makes communication and discussion impossible. All of Twitter takes this kneejerk approach, labeling everyone into one side or another, as if there's only one appropriate reaction and you're a sickening monster if you don't agree with us.

[cynicalsandel]

"I don't know what makes me more depressed, the actual interview and how gross it was, or all the gamers who support it. It ruined my day."

Anyone who wants to hear Molyneux be accountable for this massive project and it's failures are the worst scum of the earth, how dare you, this man is a legend.

Can gamedevs not play the "this is why I want to leave the industry" card every single time something happens. It makes communication and discussion impossible. All of Twitter takes this kneejerk approach, labeling everyone into one side or another, as if there's only one appropriate reaction and you're a sickening monster if you don't agree with us.

I'm sorry I don't like an interview that starts off by asking him if he's a pathological liar. I'm sorry I have a problem with an interview that uncovers nothing new and only acts as catharsis for people upset with Molyneux. I don't see how this article held him accountable. I haven't even played one of his games. Why would I care if he is a "legend"? I don't care about his reputation. He is still a person, and regardless of whether he failed to deliver on Godus, I still believe he deserves to be treated better than this.

I'm not gonna say there is one appropriate reaction to this article, but the reaction of a noticeable amount of gamers is "Oh yeah. I love this. I want every interview to be like this. He deserves it. This is the only 'real' games journalism." and that terrifies me and makes me depressed. It's not some "kneejerk" reaction. It it something that physically and mentally affected me for days.

[Torchkas]

I agree with cynicalsandel. The interview simply isn't particularly newsworthy.

Confronting Molyneux with the dissatisfaction that he seems so awfully unaware of should have been a highlight of the interview. IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THE ENTIRE INTERVIEW. This is not how you create articles. You're only stirring shit up more.

Or perhaps it's all just genius marketing by RPS and we're all falling for it.