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[starsrift]

Nobody wonders why rocks exist, or why do they roll down the hill when you push them. It just happens, this is how the world works. So why do they wonder about themselves all the time?

Arguably,
we're a herd species that's ultimately psychologically reassured by an ultimate authority that's in control of the herd.

...arguably.

[J-Snake]

It's not the least bit worth living unless our consciousness is able to continue beyond death

In the end it is just a psychological construct that creates that illusion. Note that this illusion is affecting you in now, as long as you are alive, not when you are dead.

If you live a limited amount of time without knowing/bothering when or whether you are going to die, where is the actual difference to living an eternal life at any point of time? The actual value of life is in now, in present, not in the past or in the future. In that regard limited life is as worth living as an eternal life because everything happens in present. Experiencing more snapshots of life doesn't make the snapshot you are currently experiencing any more valuable. 100 red dots are not "redder" than 1 red dot.

[ProgramGamer]

I think I just understood something. Importance without a thing to be important towards is nonsense. For an example, me doing my physics homework is useless, unless I consider the goal of getting better at physics, which reinforces the notion that you should make your own goals in life.

[oahda]

It's not the least bit worth living unless our consciousness is able to continue beyond death

In the end it is just a psychological construct that creates that illusion. Note that this illusion is affecting you in now, as long as you are alive, not when you are dead.

If you live a limited amount of time without knowing/bothering when or whether you are going to die, where is the actual difference to living an eternal life at any point of time? The actual value of life is in now, in present, not in the past or in the future. In that regard limited life is as worth living as an eternal life because everything happens in present. Experiencing more snapshots of life doesn't make the snapshot you are currently experiencing any more valuable. 100 red dots are not "redder" than 1 red dot.

Not sure if I agree. Nostalgia and dreams of the future are definitely strong forces to keep one going and to make one happier. Being stuck in the present, especially during a bad period, with nothing good to look back on or any future prospects, sounds rather awful. It's hard enough as it is. I would definitely not still be alive if the present was all I had, because it's really not pleasant. Perhaps 100 red dots are not redder, but perhaps the past and the future have different colours?

[J-Snake]

Nostalgia and dreams of the future are definitely strong forces to keep one going and to make one happier. Being stuck in the present, especially during a bad period, with nothing good to look back on or any future prospects, sounds rather awful.

That's not the technical reality I am talking about. Looking back at past and looking forward to future is all what happens in present. Everything happens in present. It's important to see that whatever happens in present, that is the actual drive for everything. The conclusion of this technical reality is that it doesn't actually matter whether you achieve a long time goal or not as long as you keep working towards it. What I am saying is that some of us are confident at reaching a set goal. But whether you reach it or not, you are experiencing the same road towards the goal as long as you are walking on it.

[oahda]

Nostalgia and dreams of the future are definitely strong forces to keep one going and to make one happier. Being stuck in the present, especially during a bad period, with nothing good to look back on or any future prospects, sounds rather awful.

Looking back at past and looking forward to future is all what happens in present. Everything happens in present. It's important to see that whatever happens in present, that is the actual drive for everything. The conclusion of this technical reality is that it doesn't actually matter whether you achieve a long time goal or not as long as you keep working towards it.

Of course everything gets instantaneously moved into the past as time passes, but that's not how people perceive the world. The present has a certain time frame in one's actual experience even if that is technically incorrect, and that is reflected in the temporal morphology of many languages and the way in which most people live.

The future on the other hand is sketchier, so they shouldn't be lumped together. But both future and past (and I'm talking about cultural perceptions of past and future here, not of technical truths) can act as a drive (or the opposite) for people. And working towards a goal and never succeeding as opposed to the opposite can definitely "matter" differently to people on a personal level even if it doesn't on any objective level, as there is no grand scheme of things. Of course nothing truly matters for some ~great plan of the cosmos~, but that's not how people in general tend to live.

I'm not even saying most of this applies to me, because it doesn't, but it absolutely does to a lot of people.

You are completely right in everything you just said, on a technical level, but I wasn't trying to discuss that. I was aiming at most people's actual perception of things.

[Netsu]

This metaphor requires a higher entity to observe this ocean across time as a whole, someone for whom the waves are purposed to be not boring. If this being is unable to record the life of any particular wave then it is the same as if that wave never even began to exist, the wave would only be able to know better if it continued to exist.
If in the metaphor it is only the waves who live then no one wave can ever observe, remember or create meaning from the past and future waves in the ocean.

How so? This is exactly what people do, using sciences to figure out what happened in the past, what will happen in the future and what is the world like beyond the reach of our senses and our mortal lives. We don't have to be eternal to wonder at how amazing the universe is, we only need to look around.

So to continue the metaphor: the rising wave can for a brief moment look at the whole ocean, and all the other waves around it, as though it was separate from them. Something it cannot do when it is just water flowing beneath the surface. But it is never truly separate from the ocean, it just rises above to fall back again after a while. And the view from up there is spectacular.

If you live a limited amount of time without knowing/bothering when or whether you are going to die, where is the actual difference to living an eternal life at any point of time? The actual value of life is in now, in present, not in the past or in the future. In that regard limited life is as worth living as an eternal life because everything happens in present. Experiencing more snapshots of life doesn't make the snapshot you are currently experiencing any more valuable. 100 red dots are not "redder" than 1 red dot.

Well said. Eternal life is just more of the same, if mortal life doesn't have any value to you then how can eternal life have any?

Of course nothing truly matters for some ~great plan of the cosmos~, but that's not how people in general tend to live.

I'm not even saying most of this applies to me, because it doesn't, but it absolutely does to a lot of people.

You are completely right in everything you just said, on a technical level, but I wasn't trying to discuss that. I was aiming at most people's actual perception of things.

You can live your ordinary day to day life but still find great comfort and peace in the fact that nothing truly matters in the end, not even death.

[oahda]

You can live your ordinary day to day life but still find great comfort and peace in the fact that nothing truly matters in the end, not even death.

Absolutely. The realisation could go either way. Nothing matters? Let's partay! Nothing mathers? Might as well kill myself. Or just in between with not a care and a continued normal life.

A lot of people do seem afraid of this thought, tho, considering all those who cling to religion in the face of modern science.

[J-Snake]

You are completely right in everything you just said, on a technical level, but I wasn't trying to discuss that. I was aiming at most people's actual perception of things.

Me too. Of course it will matter to you whether you have reached your goal or not at the end. But at that point of time you are not on the road anymore. That's the catch that applies to everyone. Similarly some people follow ambitious goals in life despite they will die tomorrow. But as long as they don't know it they keep working on it. Otherwise knowledge of future would take them away from their road. In that sense it is good not knowing the real future.

[oahda]

You are completely right in everything you just said, on a technical level, but I wasn't trying to discuss that. I was aiming at most people's actual perception of things.

Me too. Of course it will matter to you whether you have reached your goal or not at the end. But at that point of time you are not on the road anymore. That's the catch that applies to everyone. Similarly some people follow ambitious goals in life despite they will die tomorrow. But as long as they don't know it they keep working on it. Otherwise knowledge of future would take them away from their road. In that sense it is good not knowing the future.

Well, I wasn't talking about actually knowing the future. Just having plans and hopes.

[J-Snake]

Me neither. Of course it is good to have plans and hopes, because you actually don't know the future.

[MeshGearFox]

Sometimes I masturbate to pictures of cartoon horses but not the ones you'd expect.

[Netsu]

[ProgramGamer]

You guys express the insanity of the human race perfectly.

[Schoq]

that's racist

[gimymblert]

There is the theory of Quantum Mechanics, for example.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about.

Wow, you guys turned this question into a really interesting discussion, keep it up!

I'll kick it a notch further. Is life really worth living if, when we die, all of our memories and feelings are erased from the universe forever?

That's really up to you.

Everything is constantly changing into something else and there is no constant thing to hold on to. Your life, including your memories and your feelings is part of this great enormous process called the universe, and it's very likely that this process will never end.

Is it worth it for a wave to rise above the ocean if ultimately it will crash into the surface of the water again and disappear? In the end another wave will always come after it, and how boring would an ocean be if there was no movement in it.

It hit me that the universe is inflating because there is a force that inflate space, and that is the opposite of gravity that hold things together by contracting space ...

Thus the alcumbierre drive might not work as we thought it might. How do hold a force that oppose "hold". All galaxy are practically on alcumbierre phenomenon hence inflation. If we produce that negative gravity it will rip things apart. It might be why it so difficult to detect that energy, by nature she push things appart, ie if it's a particle she will stay as far as possible of it's peer, it's this phenomena that push the universe away and gravity is actually making "bubbles" in that sea of distant particle.

If we take that logic to its conclusion that mean that eventually this energy will overcome other energy and break the bond that makes matter hold itself, creating a specific heat death case.

[ProgramGamer]

Yay. I'm going to keep playing games until that happens.

[Netsu]

Dark energy is really weak tho, infinitely weaker than gravity, so I don't think it could ever overcome it. Think of it a as a natural tendency of vacuum for uniform distribution of matter. It is able to pull galaxies apart from each other but definitely not planets and stars.

[gimymblert]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Rip

[Superb Joe]

who cares.