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[Soulliard]

Yes, but that doesn't solve the problem.

[JLJac]

Here's my suggestion for a move list:

A when not holding an item - Summon shadow cube. You need to hold it for maybe two seconds, and this is the effect of the A button even if you hold some direction key, making you able to run and jump around freely while summoning.

When holding an item, A works like this:
A- Throw- Lyle throws an item.

>A- Far Throw- Lyle throws an item at a greater speed.

^A- High Throw- Lyle lobs the item into the air.

vA- Downward Throw- Lyle throws an item into the ground, himself going upwards like an extra double jump.


S summons special cubes.

S - summon green cube. Takes about 1 second, but you need to stand still.

>S- blue cube. This cube is summoned and thrown forward instantly, making it usable as a "quick attack". Does less damage than the shadow cube.

^S- Pick up enemy. Lyle is able to walk around with the enemy for about three seconds, maybe depending on the enemy's button mashing. He can throw them like any item, their initial speed of course divided by their weight stat. If this is hard to implement ^S can be the red cube.

vS- Summon Orange Cube- Lyle summons a giant orange cube. He can't move or attack until he throws it, and it doesn't go very far, but it does lots of damage. A cool animation for this would be that Lyle has to stand still for about two seconds, because he is doing that pull animation from the game, where he grabs the ground and close his eyes. When the animation is over he pulls the giant cube out of the ground. Once the animation has started it can not be stopped, you have to follow through just like in the original game, risking being hit while doing it.

Maybe pulling out of the ground can be used as a summoning animation for all cubes but the phantom cube, being somewhat more true to LiCS? Also I love that pulling animation

[shig]

Yes, but that doesn't solve the problem.

You wouldn't be able to use your ^S.

You could still throw them downwards, but you'd probably end up dying, too.

[JLJac]

Run Lyle, run!

[shig]

wow

That's the best thing ever. You adapted his ingame walking animation perfectly.

The only thing that is wrong here is how the arm behind his torso doesn't seem to swing/move as much as the other one.

I suddenly feel like replaying LiCS from the beginning.

[Soulliard]

One quick note about Lyle's sprites: to keep them consistent with the game's style, there need to be outlines around internal borders as well (like his arms and legs). Also, I wouldn't get too wrapped up in animating Lyle for two reasons:
-Nic Destefano wants to see Lyle's sprite first before he gives his approval.
-Liero and Nikujin are the highest priority characters right now. If they can be completely animated in time, the milestone 1 build could be finished by mid-March.

A when not holding an item - Summon shadow cube.

It seems like your move list would end up functioning almost exactly like mine (he doesn't have to summon weaker cubes, but he still summons stronger ones), only he can't throw up or down unless he summons a cube first. Disabling half his attacks when he doesn't have an item equipped seems unnecessarily limiting.

vA- Downward Throw- Lyle throws an item into the ground, himself going upwards like an extra double jump.

It's been said before, but ^S needs to be a recovery move. If people are going to try out different characters, it helps to be consistent, and an obscure recovery like this will never be discovered by new players on their own.

S summons special cubes.

Which ones would they be?

S - summon green cube. Takes about 1 second, but you need to stand still.

Summoning a green cube is really not an advantage for Lyle, since usually it just means that your opponent will be throwing the item back at you.

>S- blue cube. This cube is summoned and thrown forward instantly, making it usable as a "quick attack". Does less damage than the shadow cube.

Blue cubes need to deal a pretty good amount of damage. Remember, they're a standard item, and if they don't do much damage other characters will never find them to be worth picking up.

^S- Pick up enemy. Lyle is able to walk around with the enemy for about three seconds, maybe depending on the enemy's button mashing.

Random button mashing is pointless. This would be better as a simple timed effect.

Maybe pulling out of the ground can be used as a summoning animation for all cubes but the phantom cube, being somewhat more true to LiCS? Also I love that pulling animation

This is a good suggestion.

[JLJac]

One quick note about Lyle's sprites: to keep them consistent with the game's style, there need to be outlines around internal borders as well (like his arms and legs). Also, I wouldn't get too wrapped up in animating Lyle for two reasons:
-Nic Destefano wants to see Lyle's sprite first before he gives his approval.
-Liero and Nikujin are the highest priority characters right now. If they can be completely animated in time, the milestone 1 build could be finished by mid-March.

Yeah, I know, just felt kind of inspired on working on Lyle... Sorry

Maybe he will be easier to persuade with some juicy animations to back us up? Also, be sure to show him the big picture of all characters when sending him the e-mail, so he gets the grafical theme of IB. Otherwise he might respond something like "Lyle doesn't have an outline" not knowing what he has been adapted to.

A when not holding an item - Summon shadow cube.

It seems like your move list would end up functioning almost exactly like mine (he doesn't have to summon weaker cubes, but he still summons stronger ones), only he can't throw up or down unless he summons a cube first. Disabling half his attacks when he doesn't have an item equipped seems unnecessarily limiting.

But in your move list, what does A do when not holding an item? Are you supposed to be able to throw cubes without summoning them? I just wanted to fit the phantom cube into the movelist in a way that is somewhat closer to the original, meaning you will be able to run around while summoning.

vA- Downward Throw- Lyle throws an item into the ground, himself going upwards like an extra double jump.

It's been said before, but ^S needs to be a recovery move. If people are going to try out different characters, it helps to be consistent, and an obscure recovery like this will never be discovered by new players on their own.

Might be, but I still don't like the thought of pressing ^ to make a downward aimed attack

S summons special cubes.

Which ones would they be?

That would be the ones following

S - summon green cube. Takes about 1 second, but you need to stand still.

Summoning a green cube is really not an advantage for Lyle, since usually it just means that your opponent will be throwing the item back at you.

Maybe this could be compensated for by slightly higher damage? The same goes for when the cube is spawned on the battlefield, we don't want people avoiding it because it just gets back at them, so it needs some kind of good feature.

>S- blue cube. This cube is summoned and thrown forward instantly, making it usable as a "quick attack". Does less damage than the shadow cube.

Blue cubes need to deal a pretty good amount of damage. Remember, they're a standard item, and if they don't do much damage other characters will never find them to be worth picking up.

Very good point. If we were to use my movelist or parts of it, this could be compensated for by making the phantom cube, with higher damage, taking a significantly longer time to spawn, while the blue cube still does damage enough to be useful for other players.

^S- Pick up enemy. Lyle is able to walk around with the enemy for about three seconds, maybe depending on the enemy's button mashing.

Random button mashing is pointless. This would be better as a simple timed effect.

A question of taste, is it not I think there should be some whay to get loose a little faster, otherwise it would be too frustrating and boring, being unplugged from the game entirely for three seconds, just idly waiting for your death.

Maybe pulling out of the ground can be used as a summoning animation for all cubes but the phantom cube, being somewhat more true to LiCS? Also I love that pulling animation

This is a good suggestion.

Whe've got to get that animation in! :D

The main point I was trying to make with my movelist was that you should be able to run around while summoning a phantom cube, something I think would make the gameplay while playing Lyle a lot more LiCS-like.

wow

That's the best thing ever. You adapted his ingame walking animation perfectly.

The only thing that is wrong here is how the arm behind his torso doesn't seem to swing/move as much as the other one.

I suddenly feel like replaying LiCS from the beginning.

Thank you, glad I inspired you

[Valter]

I was thinking the throw would be something like an auto-toss like I think the Dwarf does. Maybe the only difference would be that it would be directional (so you can toss your enemy in any direction). Also, thrown people should do damage to other enemies if they hit them.

I would honestly replace orange cube with the grab-throw or kick attack. Lyle needs some way of getting melee attackers away from him. Also, the grab wouldn't be like Kirby's swallow move. Once the grab is executed, the next direction pressed tosses the enemy. No walking allowed.

[battlerager]

But in your move list, what does A do when not holding an item? Are you supposed to be able to throw cubes without summoning them?

As far as I undestand, yes.

He throws a phantom cube which he summons the moment the button is pressed.

[Soulliard]

Yeah, I know, just felt kind of inspired on working on Lyle... Sorry

No worries. You're free to work on Lyle if you want- your sprites will definitely be used (it looks great). I'm just pointing out that people shouldn't feel obligated to work on Lyle immediately.

But in your move list, what does A do when not holding an item?

You throw a phantom cube instead of a real cube. It isn't as strong, though.

Might be, but I still don't like the thought of pressing ^ to make a downward aimed attack

It's not as weird as you might think. In SSB, Pikachu's vB (thunder) strikes upwards, and it feels perfectly natural.

Maybe this could be compensated for by slightly higher damage? The same goes for when the cube is spawned on the battlefield, we don't want people avoiding it because it just gets back at them, so it needs some kind of good feature.

Thrown items should be fairly strong to begin with, so I'm sure people will still use green cubes a lot. There's just no advantage to throwing a green cube over a blue cube.

The main point I was trying to make with my movelist was that you should be able to run around while summoning a phantom cube, something I think would make the gameplay while playing Lyle a lot more LiCS-like.

I can easily make it so that it's possible to run around when using S to summon cubes.

I would honestly replace orange cube with the grab-throw or kick attack. Lyle needs some way of getting melee attackers away from him. Also, the grab wouldn't be like Kirby's swallow move. Once the grab is executed, the next direction pressed tosses the enemy. No walking allowed.

The act of throwing an item doesn't take much time, so as long as the cubes have some knockback, they could help Lyle keep his distance. His grab-throw could also help keep opponents at a distance.

[Clemens]

So yeah, before going any further into this: shall we send the sprite to Nic Destefano to see what he thinks of it? Maybe we should wait for the next build. so we got something nice to show off. 

[Yami]

Changes
I made the other arm swing. The outlines were real clunky so I redefined those. I replaced the hair with the one I had done earlier, and there was some anti-aliasing I did to make him look more crisp.

[Rory]

Why don't you make it so instead of phantom cubes he throws blue cubes? And can summon other types of cubes.

[Soulliard]

'Cause it would be overpowered.

Nice edit, Yami.

[Rory]

No I meant have it do the same damage as the phantom cube. And not have the blue cube as an item.