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[dphsw]

Hello everyone,

I've been working on a game that's inspired half by the single-screen platformer genre, half by the tower-defense genre.  You have to destroy the enemies on each screen, but instead of the threat coming from them being able to harm you, you're invincible and the threat comes from the fact that you lose lives if the enemies make it through the exits.

Ultimately it's meant for release mainly on PC (though also on any other format I can manage), but for now I've made a miniature version of it (subtitled 'The Basement') and released it on Kongregate.  But it's getting an average rating of 2 stars, and I'd like to know what people think is wrong with it.  You can give it a try here:

http://www.kongregate.com/games/DPHSoftwareLtd/balloon-platform-defense-basement

My own ideas are just that the level design progresses in difficulty too slowly - I thought I needed to introduce concepts gradually since there's no tutorial, but perhaps in so doing I've made the opening levels dull, and (as can be seen from the 'Level Reached' statistics in the highscore table) nobody ever gets to the harder levels.  That, and the controls don't seem to work as well in the browser as they do in a standalone build.

Does anybody have any other feedback about what the problems might be, about how to improve the levels?

[Quicksand-S]

I'll tell you how I felt about it while playing. Maybe this is similar to how other people felt.

-The character isn't as detailed as I expect in modern games and I wasn't a fan of the design, so right away the game looked a little unappealing. Of course, graphics aren't everything.

-The jogging animation looks really goofy, like the character is speed-walking. This isn't necessarily a huge deal, but it was one of the first things I noticed. Since I already didn't really like the character, this goofy movement made me like them even less. Of course, animation isn't everything either.

-I was not a fan of the music and muted it within about four seconds.

-Horizontal movement is slow while jumping height is extreme. It just didn't feel balanced.

-The biggest problem for me is that attacking the balloons is incredibly imprecise. Half the time, bits of them would fly off in the wrong direction and trying to stomp them would just make those pieces of the balloons get pushed into my void/door/box/whatever-it-is. In a game where letting anything through subtracts a life, I found it really annoying that it was so awkward to deal with things.

-The balloon image that comes up when you complete a level really shouldn't be so blurry.

-In level 3, I went to stomp on a balloon and ended up on the second floor with no quick way to get back as I watched a huge group of balloons on the lower level go by. This is one of the reasons I don't like "Up" as the jump button in games. If it was another key, then you could easily use Down+Jump to drop back down and avoid these sorts of issues.

-The corridors generally have pretty low ceilings, which means that I often have to do short hops in order to keep from jumping to the next floor. It didn't feel like I had freedom to move. Maybe the character is too big for this type of single-screen gameplay.

-I'm not a fan of games where holding Jump makes the character bounce. Of course, I was releasing the key early most of the time, but it's still pretty easy to accidentally jump a second time and screw up everything by hitting balloons you didn't want to.

-I really didn't like that lives carried over between levels. Having to deal with multi-part balloons flying all over the place in level 2, I went into level 3 missing a ton of lives.

-Level 5 was the only one where I felt like my actions had the expected results. In all the previous levels, I would stomp on, or squeeze, balloons and just bounce off half the time instead of actually destroying them.

-I feel like the game could benefit from an attack button, or at the very least the ability to rush straight downward if I press Down while in the air. That would help with aiming and make the character feel more powerful and able to deal with things.

-The physics were pretty impressive. It was cool to see how different shapes of balloon worked.

-I liked that I could push balloons up to other floors sometimes.

-The sound effects were all right.

-The visuals of HUD and menu system reminded me of certain DOS games I used to like, which was nice.



I stopped playing at level 8, where an enemy started right near the exit and entered it within about two seconds. Game over. That was pretty irritating. After that, I had I had no interest in playing again.

In terms of the difficulty curve, it seemed all over the place. Level 2 was much harder than level 4 just because of all the bits flying around. I didn't have any issue with the progression from stationary, to moving, to faster-moving enemies. Difficulty mostly came from what type of balloon was being used. I found the animal-shaped ones hardest to destroy cleanly, and the circular ones most annoying to deal with because they didn't always pop.

I tried Survival Mode briefly, but I find circular balloons irritating to deal with, as I mentioned, so I didn't enjoy it.

In the end, I think the primary issue for me was just that it's a pain to deal with the balloons. If the character moves too slowly, jumps too high, falls too slowly, is able to bounce off of balloons rather than crushing them and doesn't have the strength to pop a balloon against a wall, then it just doesn't feel good to me. That said, since all the major issues are control-related, I think it could be drastically improved with some simple adjustments.

[marcgfx]

the idea is quite clever and it could be fun. I hated that the platforms you can stand on are not visible in many levels, why would you do that?

[dphsw]

I hated that the platforms you can stand on are not visible in many levels, why would you do that?

Er, I wouldn't.  I can only imagine that's some sort of shader problem.  Can you tell me what sort of graphics hardware you're using?  If it's only happening on some levels, I assume it's any one-way-platforms - does it happen first on level 3?

[dphsw]

The jogging animation looks really goofy, like the character is speed-walking. This isn't necessarily a huge deal, but it was one of the first things I noticed.

Animation isn't my forte, but for now I've slowed down the speed of it so it doesn't look so much like the legs are struggling to move fast enough.

-Horizontal movement is slow while jumping height is extreme. It just didn't feel balanced.

Jake Birkett said something similar, so now I've increased the maximum horizontal speed by 20% (much more than that and I found it uncontrollable), increased the rate of acceleration, and given it more gravity and initial speed when jumping (so it still jumps the same height, but should take less time to do it.)

-The balloon image that comes up when you complete a level really shouldn't be so blurry.

Fixed.  All the balloons are blurry at the edges to stop them looking pixelated, but the menu ones being so much bigger than the in-game ones really needed a different blur-factor.

-In level 3, I went to stomp on a balloon and ended up on the second floor with no quick way to get back as I watched a huge group of balloons on the lower level go by. This is one of the reasons I don't like "Up" as the jump button in games. If it was another key, then you could easily use Down+Jump to drop back down and avoid these sorts of issues.

That could still just use the down key - it's just not something I'd really thought about.  But I guess it would open up more possibilities for future level design too, so I'll look into it, it might not be that hard to add.

-I'm not a fan of games where holding Jump makes the character bounce. Of course, I was releasing the key early most of the time, but it's still pretty easy to accidentally jump a second time and screw up everything by hitting balloons you didn't want to.

OK, I've altered it so that you don't keep jumping on platforms without releasing the jump key.  Thinking about how the controls in Bubble Bobble worked, when bouncing on bubbles, I decided to keep it so that you still bounced on balloons by holding the jump key though.

-I really didn't like that lives carried over between levels. Having to deal with multi-part balloons flying all over the place in level 2, I went into level 3 missing a ton of lives.

That's the idea of arcade mode - there was also meant to be a casual mode, in which you just play one level at a time trying to complete it without loss of lives or in a short enough time, but it isn't finished yet - I'm not sure whether I'll finish it in time for the next update.

-I feel like the game could benefit from an attack button, or at the very least the ability to rush straight downward if I press Down while in the air. That would help with aiming and make the character feel more powerful and able to deal with things.
...
In the end, I think the primary issue for me was just that it's a pain to deal with the balloons. If the character moves too slowly, jumps too high, falls too slowly, is able to bounce off of balloons rather than crushing them and doesn't have the strength to pop a balloon against a wall, then it just doesn't feel good to me. That said, since all the major issues are control-related, I think it could be drastically improved with some simple adjustments.

With the adjustments made to the character, not only does it move faster, but it has more mass and acceleration (so more force I guess) in move horizontal and vertical directions, and even without a downwards attack, it's certainly easier to destroy balloons against walls and probably against the floor too.

I also want to make changes to a lot of the level designs, so give me a day or two, I'll try to remember to post here when the updated version is out, then let us know what you think.  (I'll also see whether I can fix marcgfx's problem with it, based on my guess that it's being caused by some platform shaders taking 4 texture coords.)

[marcgfx]

yes level 3 is the beginning of the issue, level 1 and 2 are fine. using macbook pro OSX, Intel Iris 1536 MB.

[dphsw]

I've uploaded an updated version of the game now. (As before, play at http://www.kongregate.com/games/DPHSoftwareLtd/balloon-platform-defense-basement ) Updated features are:

• A new casual mode that requires levels to be beat without losing a life, but once you reach a level that way, you can keep trying it as many times as you like.
• Faster player movement, both horizontally and vertically (which also gives the player more strength for popping balloons).
• Press the down button to drop through a one-way platform.
• General changes to level designs which I think improve the difficulty curve.

Marcgfx, I've made a slight change to the way the platforms are drawn, but I doubt it will fix the invisible-platforms issue.  I'll spend more time trying to fix that over the next few days, but there was a lot to do in a few days as it was, so for now I've just tried a quick option that at least has a slight chance of fixing it (and will probably look odd even if it does).

Quicksand-S, let us know if you think this is an improvement, and anyone else, please have a go and rate too!

[Quicksand-S]

It certainly feels better to me, and I like the "casual" mode (which is strange naming, considering you have to get a perfect win).

-The jumping might be a little too weak now. Maybe make it stronger but increase gravity slightly to compensate? As it is now, I keep getting caught on the sides of floors when I try to jump up to them.

-A quick Reset button would be great, but also just a shorter timer after losing. I sat there looking at "Game Over" for at least twice as long as I'd expect. It'd be nice if it didn't go straight to the level select again, too.

-I would like to be able to go straight to the next level in Casual without having to take my hands off the keyboard, grab the mouse and select the next level. A lot of games seem to have a pop-up when you win a level, with Reply, Menu, and Next Level options. Normally you can just press Space or Enter at that point and the game will go to the next level. I like that way of doing things.

-The increased strength/speed is great. So much more satisfying. I didn't really encounter any annoying situations with the balloons not popping (With the exception of the windmill, which had an annoying tendency to send things flying across the level toward the door).

-The score is completely pointless in Casual mode, since there's no way to get a higher score. Feels like maybe it needs something like a combo meter, so you get more points the faster you go.

-From what I've played, the difficulty curve is much better. Level 6 was maybe a bit too simple, but the ones before it were good.


This is a huge improvement. It's so much more satisfying to run around and pop things now, and it's pretty fun when I'm not waiting to restart a level.

That said, I did rage-quit at the windmill when I dropped right through a balloon that was entering the door. It hadn't visibly gone into it yet, so I thought I was just in time. It might be worth adjusting that slightly, by making balloons disappear into the door more quickly so it's always clear what state they're in. That was pretty annoying, and I was doing so well until it decided to shoot across the level suddenly. Oh well. It's not really my type of game, so I'm not sure this is a mark against it. It's probably just me.

[Cosmic]

Overall I liked the goofy feel of the game. While the graphics weren't top notch, they certainly weren't bad. The sound track was a bit annoying, although it did fit the theme of the game very well.
As a question, is the 'Development Build' text at the bottom right corner of the game meant to be there?

[dphsw]

Overall I liked the goofy feel of the game. While the graphics weren't top notch, they certainly weren't bad. The sound track was a bit annoying, although it did fit the theme of the game very well.
As a question, is the 'Development Build' text at the bottom right corner of the game meant to be there?

Thanks, the graphics are all programmer art, and since I could make distortable balloons with shading, the rest of the graphics were pretty much designed to match that style (which is why the characters aren't very detailed, as mentioned earlier in the thread - characters with plain colours and shading seemed to match the style of the balloons) but when it comes to art, "not bad" is pretty much what I shoot for.  The soundtrack isn't mine, as it says in the credits, but I was looking for something that fit the theme, and was reminiscent of the style of music from that sort of game.

It isn't saying 'Development Build' in the corner for me.  Saying 'Development Build' in the corner, strangely enough, doesn't always mean that the game is a development build - sometimes it just says that because you have your Unity Webplayer set to debug mode.  I think you have to hold alt and right click in the webplayer to bring up the menu that will let you change its settings, but that doesn't work while you're in Kongregate for some reason, you have to do it in a more basic page, like the default html file Unity makes when it compiles the webplayer build.
http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/509866/how-can-i-switch-out-of-development-release-channe.html

Thanks for the feedback!

[dphsw]

It certainly feels better to me, and I like the "casual" mode (which is strange naming, considering you have to get a perfect win).
-A quick Reset button would be great, but also just a shorter timer after losing. I sat there looking at "Game Over" for at least twice as long as I'd expect. It'd be nice if it didn't go straight to the level select again, too.
-I would like to be able to go straight to the next level in Casual without having to take my hands off the keyboard, grab the mouse and select the next level. A lot of games seem to have a pop-up when you win a level, with Reply, Menu, and Next Level options. Normally you can just press Space or Enter at that point and the game will go to the next level. I like that way of doing things.

All good points, I'll try and work some of that into it when I get the chance.

-The score is completely pointless in Casual mode, since there's no way to get a higher score. Feels like maybe it needs something like a combo meter, so you get more points the faster you go.

Actually you already get more points if you pop more balloons at once - 100 for one balloon, 100+200=300 for two balloons at once, 100+200+300=600 for three balloons at once, etc.  And if two players work together to pop a balloon, squashing it between them, they both get the points for it, so their combined score (which is what Kongregate records) is double.  But none of that is obvious - to put some sort of bonus sign showing the higher score achieved when several balloons are popped has always been on my to-do list, but there's always been higher priorities so far.

The score is kind of pointless in casual mode right now (well, scores are usually pointless, but at least you can see your high score usually) but the idea ultimately is for there to be more aims to casual mode - probably 3 stars to each level, one for the flawless completion, one for a high enough score, and one for a short enough time (even if you just get all the balloons into the window), but that will all take a lot longer to implement, and my aim for this weekend was just to get a casual mode working of some sort.  But that's why it seems a bit hard for a casual mode right now, and partly why there's a score there which has little point to it.

-The jumping might be a little too weak now. Maybe make it stronger but increase gravity slightly to compensate? As it is now, I keep getting caught on the sides of floors when I try to jump up to them.

I've noticed that too.  I'll see if increasing the jumping helps, it may only take a tiny amount to make a difference.

-The increased strength/speed is great. So much more satisfying. I didn't really encounter any annoying situations with the balloons not popping (With the exception of the windmill, which had an annoying tendency to send things flying across the level toward the door).

-From what I've played, the difficulty curve is much better. Level 6 was maybe a bit too simple, but the ones before it were good.

This is a huge improvement. It's so much more satisfying to run around and pop things now, and it's pretty fun when I'm not waiting to restart a level.

That said, I did rage-quit at the windmill when I dropped right through a balloon that was entering the door. It hadn't visibly gone into it yet, so I thought I was just in time. It might be worth adjusting that slightly, by making balloons disappear into the door more quickly so it's always clear what state they're in. That was pretty annoying, and I was doing so well until it decided to shoot across the level suddenly. Oh well. It's not really my type of game, so I'm not sure this is a mark against it. It's probably just me.

Well, I'm glad you find it such an improvement even if it isn't your kind of game, and thanks for all the testing and detailed feedback!