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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGamesAll the mods are 9$ horse armor now
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Author Topic: All the mods are 9$ horse armor now  (Read 6908 times)
Cobralad
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« on: April 23, 2015, 09:42:12 AM »

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent/?snr=1_4_4__118

Dont know what to think. It may be good for modders, it may destroy mods for players since skyrim now costs $764 if you want to have sweet graphics and anime bullshit.

Welp, their library is full of renamed unity tutorials, made by 16-yo illiterate racist russians, dont know  if they still care.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 10:03:31 AM by Cobralad » Logged
oahda
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2015, 10:01:04 AM »

dum my gf has 10000 mods and it looks awesome and they were all free mods
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Cobralad
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2015, 10:10:24 AM »

I remember Mount & Blade developer telling that he feels kinda weird that people play over 1000 hours of his game but he wont receive anything. And he still needs to pay for servers.
It all depends on pricing. Right now its bullshit, since you can buy npc-companion for $6 and you can also buy all Skyrims for $10 on sale.
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2015, 10:23:52 AM »

Don't buy overpriced garbage. The mod market should stabilize as long as you buy actually-reasonable mods.

Every open player-driven marketplace has this problem at first. You gotta let the market go through its birthing pains before finding the systemic flaws.
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Nillo
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2015, 10:51:14 AM »

My first thought: Board game designers will start selling their games as mods for Tabletop Simulator. I'm very much looking forward to this.
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2015, 11:25:57 AM »

Don't buy overpriced garbage. The mod market should stabilize as long as you buy actually-reasonable mods.

Every open player-driven marketplace has this problem at first. You gotta let the market go through its birthing pains before finding the systemic flaws.

not to mention these are all pay what you want so you can usually drop the price to around a dollar or less anyway. I'm mostly bugged that people seem to think that EVERY mod is going to have to be paid for considering that 90% of mods for every game ever are incredibly copyright infringing and would be super illegal to charge money for.
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jamesprimate
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2015, 11:38:48 AM »

My first thought: Board game designers will start selling their games as mods for Tabletop Simulator. I'm very much looking forward to this.

ahhh thats clever
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2015, 12:03:18 PM »

My first thought: Board game designers will start selling their games as mods for Tabletop Simulator. I'm very much looking forward to this.

ahhh thats clever

i would look forward to it if i actually liked virtual boardgames :/

anyway one of the potential dangers im seeing with this: if paid mods become the norm (i mean modders are probably going to think twice about working for free now) and it turns out that small cheap mods make more money than big expensive ones, it could turn the mod scene into a kind of ios appstore situation and kill off big ambitious mods.
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2015, 12:54:48 PM »

in fairness game developers have already mostly killed off big ambitious mods through lack of support or documentation already
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2015, 01:08:44 PM »

yea but this could be the final blow.

otoh maybe it could revitalize mods in general and "inspire" more devs to add mod support to their games (they take a cut from steam workshop sales, right?)
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MrBones
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2015, 06:07:46 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't developers have to enable this for their games' workshop? In the case of games like Tabletop Simulator more than likely the developers probably just won't enable it to prevent people from monopolizing board games.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2015, 02:56:12 PM »

Quote
This feels like a concept that is fine, in theory. Modders should get paid for their hard work, and nobody should feel forced to give away something for free simply because "it's the standard".

However, there are several issues with this particular implementation, and several more with the way some modders will inevitably implement it themselves. First off, and this is something I covered in the other Skyrim-related thread, is the fact that the decentralized nature of Valve's structure means that nearly all of these new features have the nasty caveat of "...and then users will just regulate everything themselves", most probably due to the fact that these projects are done by small teams who have the ability to place these features on Steam, but not the ability add new employees to the company's payroll to oversee regulation of these new systems.

The issues with legality are all but inevitable. The modding scene is extremely collaborative, even in terms of "passive" collaboration where people freely take open-source mods and integrate them into their own open-source mods as they create their own larger vision or iteration of the same basic concept. It's this free-to-access nature that lets modding flow from one person, one iteration, and one concept to the next. Any person at any time can pick up the torch and provide a new spin or advancement to the same project.

That's not to say people who want to be compensated for their work are bad, greedy, or "against free modding". Those modders are well within their rights to charge or do what they wish with their mods. But the real issue begins with a paid mod that depends on the work of a free mod. It's easy to see how this wouldn't be a problem if someone's paid mod was built from scratch, but what happens when someone who wants to be compensated for their mod work is using some portion of a different mod that was explicitly open source? Would the author of the original work really be OK with that? Because they don't really desire to make money off their work, does that mean they wouldn't or shouldn't be bothered when someone takes some part of their work, modifies it further, then sells it?

Those aren't questions that are answered easily, and those aren't questions that Valve has even bothered to ask, judging by the fact that they hoisted something like this on the Workshop without actually having figured out half of these kinks.



Exactly. Their "pay what you want" option isn't really "Pay what you want", it's "pay something and we'll decide how much goes to who". Part of Humble Bundle's appeal was letting people choose to whom their money went to. All to developers? All to HB? All to the charity? Any combination of the above? Go for it, you're the one paying, you have the choice.

Valve's doesn't work that way. I want to give $5 to X modder for his really awesome work except I can't. Only $1.25 will actually go to to the modder, the rest is Valve's/Bethesda's. Literally the only way I can give more money to the modder is by HAVING to give Valve/Bethesda even more money in the first place. It's really sleazy.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if modders who pick the "pay what you want" option eventually just make their mod free, then include a donation link in the mod's description. They at least would get far more than a measly 25% for any and all donations.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1034533&page=45

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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2015, 02:57:42 PM »

theres already a thread about this. merging.
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InfiniteStateMachine
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2015, 03:43:25 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't developers have to enable this for their games' workshop? In the case of games like Tabletop Simulator more than likely the developers probably just won't enable it to prevent people from monopolizing board games.

yup that's how I understand it. Maybe the boardgame people would work something out where they also get a cut (maybe that's already how it exists for skyrim)
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2015, 03:59:51 PM »

Dont know what to think.
If it would help I could tell you what I think. It's gonna cost you though and it'll mostly be someone else's opinion. Then I'll get it deleted but don't worry I'll send you a PM so you'll still be able to read it even though noone else can.
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Cobralad
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« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2015, 07:23:11 AM »

https://np.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33nqrq/official_sw_monetization_discussion_thread/

Modmakers opinions. Some are pulling their mods out of internet. Much drama ensues.
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Dragonmaw
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« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2015, 09:57:21 AM »

Despite loving this in concept, here's a few of the major problems:

1. The Skyrim mod community is so full of drama, they couldn't have picked a worse community to debut this for
2. Mods which do basic scripting and extension functionality should not be salable
3. 25% revenue for something you made yourself is patently ridiculous
4. There should probably be a few dedicated mod curators at Valve to make sure the system isn't abused
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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2015, 01:38:49 PM »

if paid mods become the norm (i mean modders are probably going to think twice about working for free now)

I think this is one of the biggest worries people have right now, especially those who don't have much money to spare =/ The problem being especially troublesome if even the smallest hobby-level mods end up being expected to become paid. We'll have to see, commercial games didn't stop people from making free games.

Ironically I remember thinking where this could go when the idea had been suggested looooong ago (Valve was talking like this for like two years by now?), after escalating everything I had reached the conclusion that the ones at risk would be... middleware developers. Somehow. I don't remember the details but I think it was something like "now the engine doesn't matter anymore as game developers will open them in order to encourage modding, who would pay for an engine when you can get a very well featured one for 100% free?".

I should try to remember what was the whole logic behind the chain of events that would lead to that, could be fun to see.

EDIT: oh right, the other big problem with paid mods is how it also encourages DRM even moreso since now developers will want to have a way to stop copies of paid mods... (also hope we don't get greedy publishers suddenly starting to demand all mods for their games to be paid, sorta like DLC they didn't have to invest money on)
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gimymblert
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« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2015, 02:11:08 PM »

Well starcraft 2 and valve did it right, there was no existing community when they implemented paid community content, the skyrim one is a disruption of an established culture, that's the problem
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« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2015, 02:20:30 PM »

The problem being especially troublesome if even the smallest hobby-level mods end up being expected to become paid. We'll have to see, commercial games didn't stop people from making free games.

yeahhh but look at what happened with platforms like steam and the ios appstore: many games that would have most likely been free back in the day are now paid (not saying this is bad necessarily!). so the ability to easily sell downloadable games did change things a lot. and its imo reasonbale to expect the same to happen with mods.
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