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[skaz]

What bugged me the most aside from the ridiculous price cut and the shit storm it creates when every moder use assets and others mods in their own mods, is that Beth could have gained money from people who spent time FIXING the game.

SkyUI : can't play skyrim without it seriously. You buy it, dev get 25%, yeah right, then Beth actually GAIN MONEY? When they should be paying those people who finished their games? What about bugfixing mods? I should pay Beth to have the privilege to fix what they don't bother fixing or do it for free?

Can't wait to see paying mods coming back...

[Cobralad]

Are there any actual bugfixing mods?
I dont think workload of any modder ever going to compare with what average programmer in Bethesda did. I would like to see them try to run any graphic mods with 30 fps on X360.

[vinheim3]

Are there any actual bugfixing mods?

Yes, there are even bugfixing mods for Bethesda's bugfixing DLC iirc

[JWK5]

Are there any actual bugfixing mods?
I dont think workload of any modder ever going to compare with what average programmer in Bethesda did. I would like to see them try to run any graphic mods with 30 fps on X360.

Bethesda can kiss my ass when it comes to anything Elder Scrolls or Fallout on the PS3. With each iteration of the two series that they put on the PS3 a lagging issues (due to a save file bloating bug) essentially rendered the games unplayable after so many hours of playing the game (that is, due to the size of your save file the games lag to the point of being unresponsivene). With each game they seemed to insinuate they'd fixed the problem only for everyone to discover the hard way that nope, the problem is still there. So in effect, they just repeatedly scammed everyone out of their money with a defective product. The worst part being it doesn't generally manifest until fairly far along in the games (like 50+), so you're already pretty invested by the time you realize you're fucked. My personal damage: Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout New Vegas, Skyrim. Fucking ridiculous.

/rant

[Alevice]

Are there any actual bugfixing mods?
I dont think workload of any modder ever going to compare with what average programmer in Bethesda did. I would like to see them try to run any graphic mods with 30 fps on X360.

most hgames refer to those as fanmade patches. look at vampire the masquerade bloodlines and kotor 2

[RJAG]

I'm all for supporting the mod community (in theory), and I will be the first to admit that there are a few mods that are amazing, well worth it, and even worth money. I love Skyrim mods, and for Fallout 3 I cannot play with 1-2 specific mods (ex. Shift to Sprint; something Bethesda should have implemented in the first place).

Note though: I said a few.

Overall, IMO, mods are not even worth supporting. They're shit. You get a few gems (which often turn out to be really polished turds), sometimes even implemented by the developers themselves. Most of the time though they are incredibly shallow, really stupid, very cheat-ish, and almost always crap created by some amateur. Nearly always, even the popular ones, are horribly unbalanced by someone with absolutely no sense of game design.

The vast majority of "high quality" or "must have" mods are simply graphical mods. Textures, new Models, fixing meshes. Anything else though? Anything dealing with game design, balance, programming? That which we cannot easily see and judge for quality? Bleh. Mods are amateur, and...well...

Amateur is Amateur. All the good and mostly the bads, it is what it is.

IMO, monetizing mods is the death of everything I like about the modding scene. Not that I was all that big of a fan in the first place, but mods are so low quality I'd never pay a dime for them. Not even the best ones for the best supported game.

Skyrim's mod scene is great. Still not DLC $$$ great. Look at other games though. It gets worse and worse as you go down the list of "Best Games to Mod". There are exceptions, but those are rare.

I don't know about you, but I often find myself downloading tons of mods, only to find out that I can't use all of them, only like about 5ish of them, and love none of them. Of those 5, I find out that I only really use 1-2 and I barely noticed it.

Maybe if you already played the hell out of a game but still love it (in which you're crazy! but apparently not uncommon for a gamer) then sure, mods are a huge deal. For the rest of us though, we just play a different game. Usually one made by a 'professional', as opposed to an amateur who can barely figure out how to even add their art to the game, let alone balance the stats in their modded item.

TLDR: Sure, you may love 10+ Skyrim mods, but how many Fallout 3 mods do you like? How many Don't Starve mods are worth even downloading? Maybe it's just me, but I think mods are both overrated and mostly so crappy they waste more time than they do give you fun. Not to mention the crashes.

[RJAG]

With all that said, I actually thought about it and am not all that against Steam trying to allow the selling of mods.

Their problem is the same problem they have with their entire business: Quality Control.

If you're going to allow people to sell mods, then you have to have quality control. Only let in the very best, and have strict criteria for them. Since Valve is horrible about this kind of stuff (horrible customer service, non-existent quality control) of course they'll just backtrack their greedy attempt and play innocent. "We just wanted mods to increase in quality and give full time jobs to the best modders!" rather than actually try to do it right the FIRST TIME. (They will always try to do it the easy/greedier way first, then backtrack and try the better way after it fails.)

Initially a great and honorable idea to (pretend) to create jobs for modders, except it's only a great idea if you don't at all know that the vast majority of mods are crap. Sounds legit, until you think about how Bethseda will profit from someone else fixing their mistakes- encouraging future game development to release buggy products, relying on gamers to fix their problems, add their features, update their game- getting paid for it. As if they don't already do that rushing to release a game not at all ready for release.

Unfortunately those "best modders" and those people with skills to "increase quality" or even produce quality, is not in the "steam community". That is too large a community. Even in the modding community, most mods are incompetent or barely competent. You're asking a bunch of amateurs to step up their game, develop skills they don't have, all while allowing anyone to sell their shit. I read something about russian unity tutorials? oh dear god I hope that is not serious... oi vei!

I am always against Valve though. They are an incredibly greedy company that wants nothing more than to screw over their consumers at every opportunity. The only times they ever backtrack, provide refunds, or apologize, is when they are caught red handed by an overwhelming number of consumers they are too greedy to lose to competition. Competition who are just waiting for more scraps from Valve's monopoly. Without a doubt, if Valve is trying to do something- it is not in your best interest except by sheer coincidence that your benefit coincides with their greedy pursuit of profit.

[Landshark RAWR]

ok so you dont like mods in general anyway?

[s0]

lol i can still remember when steam had "quality control" (aka "only let in big budget AAA games and a handful of indies that were on XBLA") and everyone complained how much of a gatekeeper it is and how its impossible to make a living as a game dev unless youre on steam.

tbh i do not understand any of the "quality control" complaints about steam. steam is an online store and platform, valve has absolutely 0 obligation to curate anything beyond the bare minimum (e.g. games that aren't functional or are illegal in some way). it's like walking into a music store and complaining that they sell nickelback albums or watever. it just makes no sense.

[JWK5]

it's like walking into a music store and complaining that they sell nickelback albums or watever. it just makes no sense.

No, that one actually makes perfect sense (even if it isn't practical).

[Cobralad]

>games that aren't functional or are illegal in some way
well, those unity games work. Second part i doubt and its not even stolen assets. You dont wanna know whats happening in russian gamedev underground.

[s0]

ya im not denying that steam has a problem with letting too many of these games slip through the cracks. HOWEVER: ppl complaining about too many games they think are "bad" is what makes no sense.

[gimymblert]

I don't see them if jim sterling don't play them. If you don't care they don't even register in your normal steam usage

[Torchkas]

The reason steam got popular was because it used to be a curated platform. You used to be able to buy virtually any game and be ensured that it didn't have the quality of a flash game.
I'm all for opening up your platform but Valve just took the approach that required the least effort on their part. Valve should have just hired more people to curate and lower the bar a bit.
GOG is becoming a pretty good alternative.

[gimymblert]

The reason steam is popular is that they force it on us with half life 2 (then coopted counter strike) and where early in the game, when internet was crap and everybody sneered at digital distribution.

[Nillo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect

[s0]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect

yes

valve also just got digital distribution right. there was a period (most of the 00s actually) when pirating PC games was less of a hassle than buying them due to a number of factors (intrusive drm, fast internet but no good digital distribution platforms etc.). steam is a platform that is at least as convenient to use as torrents and makes it super easy to buy and download gams and play them on every computer you own.

[Alevice]

and since you dont have to donwload isos and cracks, its far more convenient than pircay

[gimymblert]

[ProgramGamer]

The main thing that they got wrong is that they tried to funnel money from customers to modders when they should have funneled money from themselves to modders.