oooh ok so were talking specifically about the "core" games sphere. i was thrown off by the word casual because when i read that in connection with games i think farmville, candy crush, bejeweled, snood, peggle, temple run etc, all of which are nonviolent games. theres nothing risky or difficult about making a nonviolent game that appeals to so-called "casual gamers", it's actually probably harder to sell a *violent* game to them. but when you say "casuals" you mean like CoD players, right?
Oh yes, I am very sorry I did not understand the correct terminology. I usually don't hear people differentiate between casuals and "core" gamers. My bad. You're right in your understanding now, I meant Dark Souls is bringing in "Core" gamers, not "Casuals". Now I understand the difference is important and will try my best to use the correct terminology from now on.
sorry but i just dont think this is true. there are droves of popular mainstream nonviolent games and lots of "safe" nonviolent designs. there are adventure games, puzzle games, (time) management games, sports games, lots of abstract card & board games, gambling, there's minecraft and its various clones where combat exists but is unimportant etc. etc. people itt have actually posted lists.
making nonviolence fun for certain "core" gamers who play violent games is hard. making nonviolence in games fun for pretty much everyone else isn't.
Great points.
I'll have to concede and agree that most likely this isn't true since you are entirely right about the puzzle games, adventure games, sports games, etc.
I was thinking (wrongly) about a specific type of game / genre. My perspective was very narrow and I did not make that clear enough.
Perhaps it is due to my disappointment of games/series that I like. An example of Fallout 3, which IMO is worse in most ways than its predecessor (Fallout 2). Yes, we have the better graphics and infinitely better interfaces and usability. That does make a huge diffeence. In the end though, it feels more shallow, less innovative, etc. I'm not saying it wasn't good or wasn't innovative, I thought VATS was an amazing way to turn a turn based game into a FPS. I really loved that change. The story though is unfortunately very similar to Fallout2, the companions are less interesting and less unique (no robo-brains, lame humanoids, no mutants until New Vegas, no Albino Deathclaws, etc. Anyway...tangent!)
Since I am not at all a big fan of puzzle games or casual games or mobile games- my list of non-violent video games is a lot shorter than other people's. So that's where I'd place my argument, in more specific genres I guess. I was certainly wrong with violence as a whole. As for innovation, I can't keep track of all platforms/genres so maybe I am wrong there too.
I also have to thank you quite significantly for admitting your own error in misreading what I wrote. I was totally surprised at the maturity and intelligence of your reply. "On the internet this is happening?!?!" hehe. I once again really did not mean to be callous or crass. It is just very difficult most of the time, and when I posted that I just got off arguing with quite a few game developers who insisted on believing something without evidence, and then teaming up against me when I asked for evidence. I had no side or argument one way or another, but apparently asking people on the internet for evidence to support their beliefs is a really unpopular move to make, hehehe. "How DARE you challenge conventional wisdom by asking for supporting evidence!"
I don't always believe firmly in the stuff I post either. Sometimes it's just theories, sometimes just thoughts that I go with to see what people say. In the end, if the conversant is intelligent, I end up with some very interesting or more truthful thoughts. I always appreciate people using sound reasoning to poke holes in my thoughts
So thanks again for your response!
making nonviolence fun for certain "core" gamers who play violent games is hard. making nonviolence in games fun for pretty much everyone else isn't.
FANTASTIC!!
This sums up my perspective I was seeing when writing my post.
A perfect statement to summarize this thread as well.