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baconman
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« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2015, 03:28:18 PM » |
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Related tangent, could use relevant input:
Resurfacing from the dead: MvC 2~3 stickfigure (think One Finger Death Punch xx Zero Punctuation?) demake game idea. Really thinking of taking it to its bones. Small, 15-25 chara cast (5 classes, maybe mixed movesets?), always turbo, singular assist - keep the character select phase quick and easy. And the controls too, for that matter.
Combo Attack, Heavy Attack, Assist 1 / 2, Tag 1 / 2. Maybe no blocking in favor of invincible backdashing, and dedicated one-press rushdowns. Only 1-2 supers per character, only really significant supers present at all.
Rethinking MvC class balance for demake.
Let's start with the obvious class; "Beamers." Because face it, if anyone controls MvC 2/3, it's "Beamers." They're usually moderate speed, slightly bigger than usual, but not tank-status. More often than not, they have flight and 8-way air-dashing (and thus the related, popular wavedash tactic). Their beams are not only space controlling and deliberately slow, they're usually multi-hit, making them easily the safest and best chipping damage option available, and usually the fastest meter-builders to boot.
The demake, having "invincible backdashing" instead of blocking, would answer the chipping and meter-building issues, at least; and special moves will probably have a little more cooldown on them, but still be super-cancellable. Beam supers will probably have the most cooldown in the game; since punishing those will require a screen-wide answer. But a *successful* connection will also stun enemies in response, keeping the momentum alive. They'll probably have 8-way dash OR flying, but not both.
Then we have "Tanks." In spite of their incredible damage output, however; their main advantage (poise/super armor) ironically makes them MORE susceptible to comboability and higher damage, and their disproportionate health does nothing to compensate for this. But their two biggest detriments are that they usually have no anti-air game (critical since they tend to be very ground-oriented), and no screen-crossing mobility options.
The demake Tanks, therefore, will probably have the second-highest rush-in rate (only outdone by Speedsters), and more specials like Captain Corridor and/or Psycho Crusher; some may have seismic attacks. Also, they'll probably have fastest recovery on stuns and capture moves.
Speedsters are another very popular Marvel choice; they've been the go-tos for priority, rushdown enthusiasts (righteously so). But their miniscule HP makes them glass cannons, and stupid-low damage rates means that you're getting equal damage at best, and typically doing FAR MORE WORK to get it.
Say what you will about Vanilla MvC3, but I was GLAD to see speedsters actually standing toe-to-toe against beamers and coming out decently. And while of no concern to Beamers, they have typically had the odd range advantage of being armed - Wolverine claws, Strider Hiryu's Cipher, Gambit and SonSon's staves, etc.; which kind of defeats the point of said mobility (to close in), now doesn't it? So the main adjustment in the demake is that the speedsters will probably be unarmed; where the arms and their range advantage will go towards "Vanillas."
Speaking of "the Vanillas," that's what I'm basically referring to any Ryu, Ken, etc. as; and while the SF cast has most of their moves, most of *them* (pretty much only the exceptions being Cammy and Dhalsim) fall into this category pretty hard. They have ZERO advantages, period; which makes everything but a Tatsumaki assist tactically worthless... besides MAYBE Cyclops who is loaded out the butt with extra moves and has the Optic Blast. Only a few can double-jump (usually Marvelite ones like Captain America); which is still *nothing* compared to the massive mobility options of Beamers and Speedsters.
I may just choose to disinclude Vanillas altogether for that reason; but given some buffing (like the armed-weapon range advantage), especially in the specials/supers department; these can be valid design prospects with which to build upon. If anyone should have air-dashing options, and validly quick teleport/mixup game, it should be this class; and taking the projectile game to multi-hit/multi-projectile status (especially in response to Beamer game!!) might make core types valid - and who doesn't like the essential idea of Karate Guy and Special Forces dude? Would "Sonic Boom" not be a valid assist, if 3-5 were fired off in succession?
Finally, we've got the "Weirdos" class; which usually consists of a few sub-classes. There's the Squids, that usually have a 6-hit Fierce something, and the multi-projectile advantage (such as Mystic Stare or Dancing Sword), "over the top" expansion moves (Mystic Stare or Venom Fang), and/or meter-draining (like Omega Red), and they can usually air-dash. There's the Stretchers (Dhalsim/Anakaris), and the Cavalry types (Jill/Amingo/Tron Bonne) that rely on special-command assists, while otherwise still being alarmingly Vanilla. And then there's The Gief, who's just there because Gief.
This is another group I'm thinking of disincluding, or at least just making a "maximized one of each type," save for Cavalry types - because that's the entire point of regular assist management anyhow. The other idea is to hybridize these subtypes across the other main types, to give a sort of "compound formula" to the mix; although I CRINGE at the idea of a meter-draining or Cavalry type Beamer (OH YEAH, HELLO SENTINEL. I guess that DOES work.)
Finally, the only other aspect of the game I've been considering is the snapback. In a game that's fundamentally ABOUT managing resources, that being characters and meter; it seems a vital ingredient to the mix. But in spite of that, I rarely use it, and when I do, it's often unintentional. AND it's probably the single biggest source of MvC2 glitches. My personal beef with the snapback, as is, is that it costs meter, and even though it's "powerful enough to disable a character for ten counts," it does ABSOLUTE BUNK for damage.
So, what adjustments need to be made? It depends. If it's a move that costs meter, it needs to hit hard. Like, in the range of 15-20% damage; but most of it recoverable (to encourage the opponent to keep them out of bounds even longer). If it's *just* for the tactical "keep them out of play" purpose, it needs a different kind of execution (less like a "hit" and more like a "special"), and be managed seperately from super-attack meter so it can't just be spammed. OR, it can be performed in the air as well, and used as a combo finisher.
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That went on awhile, didn't it?
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