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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralfemale protagonist? yes/no?
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gimymblert
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« Reply #100 on: June 17, 2015, 03:38:47 PM »

Mount Your Friends
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jamesprimate
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« Reply #101 on: June 17, 2015, 07:17:36 PM »

1. I ONLY WANT MALE PROTAGONISTS.
2. I WANT THEM HELD TO THE SAME STANDARDS OF BEING HALF DRESSED AND HAVING JIGGLE PHYSICS THAT FEMALE CHARACTERS HAVE.
3. LITERALLY CANNOT FIND MORE THAN ONE GAME THAT'S JUST FLOPPY DONGS SLAPPING MY FACE WHY IS NOBODY DOING THIS WE HAVE THE FUCKING OCCULUS NOW.
4. DID I MENTION I WANT PENISES.

Cara's got your back: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/03/14/s-exe-hot-mods-nsfw/
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starsrift
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« Reply #102 on: June 18, 2015, 12:06:56 AM »

It's strange that almost none of the games I spend the most time on are games I would call my favorite games of all time :/

It's not strange at all. You spend more hours with a game because it's replayable, not because it's necessarily the best ever.
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« Reply #103 on: July 11, 2015, 06:42:11 PM »

Female protagonist? yes/no?

Wait a sec, guys. Do we ever ask ourselves this question for male protagonists? No? Ok. Wink
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« Reply #104 on: July 12, 2015, 02:29:24 AM »

Wait a sec, guys. Do we ever ask ourselves this question for male protagonists? No? Ok. Wink

Good point. Perhaps we should ask that question more often.  Who, Me?
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Cobralad
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« Reply #105 on: July 12, 2015, 02:55:52 AM »

i have a better question: how much females is on this forum?
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oahda
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« Reply #106 on: July 12, 2015, 04:58:05 AM »

who cars we're all dum here
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #107 on: July 12, 2015, 05:44:15 AM »

Do we really need women? Their main purpose is producing humans and humans are terrible.
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JWK5
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« Reply #108 on: July 12, 2015, 06:00:32 AM »

From a player standpoint I have to ask would a male player want to play as a female in an action game
Bayonetta, Tomb Raider, Heavenly Sword, Bloodrayne, Resident Evil, etc.

I personally feel its easier to follow the example here, the hero with a thousand faces is mostly male
and maybe there's a biological or cultural reason for that. I'm unsure but it certainly seems like a reason to consider
if i want my game to do well.
Think about 3 men you know and 3 women you know (family, friends, whatever) now ask yourself how well they'd connect with your protagonist. Chances are if you don't think any one of them would be too thrilled about being stuck with the character it's because it is a shitty character.

The pros i like about doing a fem char, is its different, and  i don't think a large studio would be able to
have a female lead as easily as an indie, simply because there marketing team may dislike it.
Large studios tend to operate purely on habit. The only thing stopping them from putting in more female leads is ignorance. Is that really the example you'd like to follow?

I also quite like the look and feel of the char i have in mind, though i think i could eventually find a male char i like equally as well.
You could, but the point is you haven't. Go with the character you have in mind. Explore it, grow it, make it awesome. Just keep in mind the gender of a character is nowhere near as important as what the character stands for.

I've been flip flopping over this decision for about a week and i haven't been able to satisfy myself that a female lead would be best for my game doing well.
There is no magic recipe for success, so stop chasing that pipe dream. Go with what feels right to you and hope for the best.

I was wondering if anyone else has come across this choice and gotten stuck, or has some thoughts on the matter.
I have to think of this ruthlessly i suppose
You're only stuck because you're fighting your own intuition for what you think is the wants of others. The answer is obvious because it wouldn't even be a question if you didn't already know you wanted to have the character be female. Go with your gut, stop hinging your creativity on bullshit success formulas. A good game is a good game and a good character is a good character. Quality is what matters, not gender.
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MeshGearFox
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« Reply #109 on: July 12, 2015, 06:49:49 AM »



Serious answer but why is Suikoden 3 like the only game I've ever seen with sensible female armor that incorporate some boob room without being stupid? Suik in general has really good female representation though and the best part is the game doesn't even draw attention to it.
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« Reply #110 on: July 12, 2015, 07:57:54 AM »

you forgot Metroid.

and also Samurai Showdown. Charlotte .

« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 05:31:42 PM by bakkusa » Logged
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« Reply #111 on: July 12, 2015, 08:56:26 AM »

Charlotte's armor isn't exactly that sensible though (it only really manages to cover the shoulders and such, it's awful at protecting the body from the waist down). That's probably a different kind of "not sensible" though...
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« Reply #112 on: July 12, 2015, 09:03:49 AM »



Serious answer but why is Suikoden 3 like the only game I've ever seen with sensible female armor that incorporate some boob room without being stupid? Suik in general has really good female representation though and the best part is the game doesn't even draw attention to it.

Fire Emblem games manage this on a few occasions.



But name dropping FE is a bit of a cheat because thoese games seem to be going for the Absolute Territory.






(Also, a Toast Left to women fighting in high heels for some reason)
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« Reply #113 on: July 12, 2015, 09:07:28 AM »


From a player standpoint I have to ask would a male player want to play as a female in an action game

Bayonetta, Tomb Raider, Heavenly Sword, Bloodrayne, Resident Evil, etc.

Just gonna add to this. I'm not sure the OP is aware of how many male MMO players opt to play as female characters just because they want to (excluding all trolling purposes).

you forgot Metroid.

I was about to mention Metroid, one of the most popular examples  Hand Thumbs Up Left
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« Reply #114 on: July 12, 2015, 10:08:44 AM »

Mirror's Edge
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airman4
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« Reply #115 on: July 12, 2015, 10:39:10 AM »



Serious answer but why is Suikoden 3 like the only game I've ever seen with sensible female armor that incorporate some boob room without being stupid? Suik in general has really good female representation though and the best part is the game doesn't even draw attention to it.

















And jayle from vp 1

Dat pose and the armor !
etc

I need to play that again
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 11:45:44 AM by airman4 » Logged

PixelJunkie
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« Reply #116 on: July 12, 2015, 10:05:07 PM »

I feel like you should design the game the way you feel it should be made. Games are like art, and the second you start changing the game to try to cater to certain demographics, in my opinion, the magic of the art is already lost.
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« Reply #117 on: July 13, 2015, 10:24:08 PM »

I feel like you should design the game the way you feel it should be made. Games are like art, and the second you start changing the game to try to cater to certain demographics, in my opinion, the magic of the art is already lost.
In response to the first sentence alone:  "I feel like you should design the game the way you feel it should be made." - Yeah, that's fine, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with feeling that being purposefully inclusive to demographics not normally represented is a good thing.

Going further with that line of thought: 
The idea that art is some magical fairydust and that you can't consciously think about how to create it is a harmful one.  Just doing whatever your instincts tell you to is something that may end up creating art, but it's not the only way to go about it.

I'd argue that if you want to ~create good art~ you actually need to be conscious of your own actions and the culture in which you're a part of.  There's an endless list of great works that are a direct response, either as a part of or in opposition of, the culture and context in which they were created in.

Put as simply as possible, it's ignorant to say that "if you think about what you're doing, it's not really art".

Art isn't fucking magic.  Art is hard work that looks like magic.

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PixelJunkie
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« Reply #118 on: July 14, 2015, 12:49:46 AM »

I feel like you should design the game the way you feel it should be made. Games are like art, and the second you start changing the game to try to cater to certain demographics, in my opinion, the magic of the art is already lost.
In response to the first sentence alone:  "I feel like you should design the game the way you feel it should be made." - Yeah, that's fine, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with feeling that being purposefully inclusive to demographics not normally represented is a good thing.

Going further with that line of thought:  
The idea that art is some magical fairydust and that you can't consciously think about how to create it is a harmful one.  Just doing whatever your instincts tell you to is something that may end up creating art, but it's not the only way to go about it.

I'd argue that if you want to ~create good art~ you actually need to be conscious of your own actions and the culture in which you're a part of.  There's an endless list of great works that are a direct response, either as a part of or in opposition of, the culture and context in which they were created in.

Put as simply as possible, it's ignorant to say that "if you think about what you're doing, it's not really art".

Art isn't fucking magic.  Art is hard work that looks like magic.



You misunderstood me. I think when you force certain characters and story devices, it detracts from the game because those elements had no other reason to exist inside the story other than to try to cater to a group of people in order to become more popular or make money. The OP clearly expressed they are interested in what the better business decision is, not what the best design decision is. I guess one could argue the best design decision is what the best business decision is, but that's not part of my philosophy. This is also the reason why we get lousy spinoffs and one-too-many sequels for great game series that had more releases for what I believe is no reason other than profit.  

Some of the greatest artists in history are popular because they dared to be different, not just make what's popular or familiar at the time. Indeed, you'll never know if you have the next great thing if you don't try something different.

Out of the last 6 main Final Fantasy games, 4 of them had female lead characters (X-2, XIII, XIII-2, XIII-3) XI and XIV are mmorpgs, so they don't really count. Go back further in that series... VI (in my opinion in the highest tier of snes rpgs and my personal favorite) has a lead female character as well. Other entries in the Final Fantasy franchise leave it up to you who your lead party member is. Even in the ones where the lead character isn't female, they still generally include great female characters in your party. Another rpg series I like, Phantasy Star, has the main character of the first game in the series a female. So I don't see any reason why having a female character as the star of a game would be bad. Hmm, what other favorite rpgs games do I have? Phantom Brave is a charming game with a female main character. Yeah, it's nowhere near as popular as it should be, but oh well. Wild Arms 3 as well. I don't know about the rest of the wild arms series since that's the only one I played.

Metroid is one of the best selling video games, ever, and that was made in 1986. Protagonist? Female. Do I think making Samus a guy would make a difference? Not really because the game's focus wasn't on the character's gender.

I think people don't associate women with lead roles in many video games because of the clutter of kitsch shooters, like Call of Duty, Battlefield, Gears of War, Killzone, what have you. In most cultures men are considered front-line fighters moreso than women, so obviously the horde of these games are going to give a skewed perspective of women in games. For every Mirror's Edge, Tomb Raider, and Bayonetta, there's a dozen boring-as-rocks shooter sequels. Also, games, which are many now, that let you choose your gender seem to go ignored by a lot of people and just consider the male character as the default option, which is wrong. It's easy to forget other games exist when all someone is exposed to are endless sequels, which barely get to be called sequels, of the same male-heavy games. And obviously all the popular sports games are men's league sports. At least Fifa 16 will include women teams since women's sports are becoming more popular.

In response to what you said, nowhere did I say if I think it should be a female lead or male lead. I don't even know what the game is about or what the plot is! To be more specific, I expressed the opinion that the OP should have the character be who they feel best fits into the game, not which gender would make more profit. This would indeed be in favor of the OP having a female lead character despite their belief that a male character would be more popular. A false belief I think, anyway, since women make up almost half of video game players now, if not already. This also assumes that women on large rather play as their own gender. There's a lot of men who like playing as women in video games. In a lot of cases the gender of the character doesn't even make a difference, so perhaps that's why OP is trying to make it a business decision rather than a design one.

If someone's deliberation on what gender the lead character should be is based on which gender has the least lead roles in games when you compile them all together and not what best fits the narrative of the game, I don't think that's the way to go about it.

And to be clear, my ideas expressed weren't "if you think about what you're doing, it's not really art". If I had to be crude about it, it would be, "If your priority when creating your characters and designing your game is what will make the most profit/be the most popular, it's not quality art." To further be clear, I mean being popular in the name of profit, not in the name of what you think will be more acceptable. But hey, it's not my game. Just my opinion. I'm not actually trying to tell someone what to do. The OP's whole point of making this topic was for our opinions. If they want a female character because they feel it better fits the game, that's great. If they want a male, that's great too. But I believe if they want a male just because they think it'll make it more popular, even though they believe a female character would better fit the game, then I think that's silly.

Also, this poster basically said what I said
i think you should do what you want to or what feels best for your story
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 01:22:28 AM by PixelJunkie » Logged
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« Reply #119 on: July 14, 2015, 01:29:07 AM »

I prefer games where u play as a female protagonist, like, seriously, if a game has a female lead I'm 10 times more interested
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