Mittens
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« Reply #220 on: June 24, 2015, 04:16:40 AM » |
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all of this must have boosted their sales right now.
Exactly, let's not pretend this pity party is anything more than alternative marketing I'm speaking entirely out of my ass, but I can't imagine that this is getting significantly more sales than they otherwise would have gotten later. If you're not a ToT fan and you saw that blog post, full of politely worded bitterness and anger - as well as perhaps that the game would not be updated or patched in the future since they're closing their studio (or not? but anyway), why would you buy in? I would most likely suspect they're largely just eating their tail. Which, to be fair, they may need to do. yeah, that's true, it really doesn't entice people to buy their game, since they openly talk about the basic functionality it wont have. but I've seen people do this stuff before like "oh sad day, our kickstarter campaign is going to fail by 0.5 cents, if only someone would send us money this imminent disaster could have been avoided"
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Nillo
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« Reply #221 on: June 24, 2015, 04:18:12 AM » |
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I remember hearing the saying (I think it was Chmielarz who said it but I don't remember exactly) that games don't have to be fun, but they should be engaging and capture the player's interest. If the player is bored, then the game has failed in its purpose - but the opposite of boredom is not entertainment, it's interest.
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Mittens
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« Reply #222 on: June 24, 2015, 04:40:56 AM » |
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rip. interesting thread except the gaters ruining it
yeah, burt reynolds ruins everything
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s0
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« Reply #223 on: June 24, 2015, 04:44:38 AM » |
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Cobralad
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« Reply #224 on: June 24, 2015, 05:14:37 AM » |
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It looks like that dude is from some CIS country. Dont know about relatable indie experience from place where gamedev died in flames and indie comunnity was never born. Although actual retelling of average postbloc gamedeveloper life would be some Breaking Bad R-rated shit.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #225 on: June 24, 2015, 07:33:27 AM » |
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Anarkex
Level 1
Still dope.
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« Reply #226 on: June 24, 2015, 01:22:50 PM » |
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It was with some unexpected ambivalence that I heard this news. Certainly I was a vocal opponent to their approach in the distant past, but recently I've begun to think of ToT and their kind as gaming's "avant garde". In the words of Ionesco, "a kind of 'pre-style', indicating and pointing in the direction of a change which will triumph in the end." As we've said before in this thread, many successful games today have followed in the footsteps of ToT's work. From the divisive subgenre of "walking simulator" to more muted, meditative adventure games like Kentucky Route Zero or even the work of Telltale Games, gamers today (myself included) are more ready to abandon mechanical systems in favor of a deeper, more meaningful narrative. ToT were at the front lines (vanguard, or avant-garde) of this movement years ago when I was telling them how lame The Path was in the comments on the front page of this very site. There's something to be said for that.
But also in the words of Ionesco, this avant-garde, the vanguard, the front lines, are the first to be cut down. Their style of design isn't as experimental as it used to be, and their dedication to it is still represented by an offensive, rigid, almost religious fervor towards a perceived "evil". After all this time, I learned that sort of thing turns people off. Samtagonist (or, the man formerly known as Samtagonist) said to me that it's probably no consolation to be considered an important failure, and I suppose that's true. But hell, my mind has changed. Maybe not about everything, but about something. And maybe after all the twitter meltdowns and cognitive dissonance are over, they can take some comfort in that and move forward with whatever it is they decide to do.
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« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 01:37:24 PM by Anarkex »
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gimymblert
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« Reply #227 on: June 24, 2015, 01:24:53 PM » |
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That's cool
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s0
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« Reply #228 on: June 24, 2015, 01:38:53 PM » |
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good post, agree 100%
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Derek
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« Reply #229 on: June 24, 2015, 02:17:41 PM » |
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Yeah, that was well put.
When you're figuring out something's potential, sometimes you have to take out some crucial pieces and put them back in later, once you've understood what you wanted to understand. With early art games, the developers took out a lot of very basic and established functionality and interactivity in order to explore themes and ways of playing with games that weren't easily explored otherwise. Obviously, what was removed was sorely missed, but for a lot of people (particularly other game developers), what was left was interesting enough to make up for it.
But if you never saw the value in what was removed, you're going to have a hard time putting it back in properly. In ToT's case, they may not have even realized they were taking anything important out - just improving on games by removing unnecessary pieces. In the meantime, other developers are understanding both the value of what was uncovered and the value of what was removed, putting it all back together, and seeing a lot of success for it.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #230 on: June 24, 2015, 02:45:42 PM » |
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Tot could do that because they were outsider with fresh eyes, they removed what was uncessery to their eyes, things traditional dev had hard time dong because of the attachement to convention.
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Schrompf
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« Reply #232 on: June 26, 2015, 03:09:39 PM » |
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Just played The Path and The Graveyard. Hm. Nice "experience" for the time it lasted, but I was super annoyed by the movement speed. Maybe the game wanted to tell me something by it, but I still felt annoyed.
I'm happy I got it in a sale for 4,5€ for the three games. I would feel super pissed if I paid ten bucks for each. It's nice and all... but I think they had a lot of luck catching 6000 sales. Most indies struggle to get there with way better products.
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Snake World, multiplayer worm eats stuff and grows DevLog
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crowe
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« Reply #233 on: June 26, 2015, 09:27:20 PM » |
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Fatale was completely irredeemable, and actually gave me a headache from the terrible noise filter they chose to use for their game. Maybe that makes it art, but it doesn't make it worth experiencing.
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ஒழுக்கின்மை (Paul Eres)
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« Reply #234 on: June 27, 2015, 01:51:08 AM » |
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My cynical side looks back at their games (some of which I'd wanted to try) and thinks that, well no, I wouldn't really want to pay 5 or 10 dollars for an interactive experience that might only last an hour or a day or two. this is kind of a bad argument. you have probably paid more for things that lasted you less than an hour. it's also worth noting that sunset, their new game, is 7 hours long on average, and has multiple endings / is replayable. that's longer than most indie games. the path is also very long; far longer than an hour.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #235 on: July 02, 2015, 10:24:15 AM » |
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s0
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« Reply #236 on: July 02, 2015, 10:47:19 AM » |
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Much like Ortega hates the modernist apartment that he moves into at the start of Sunset, do I find it difficult to extend this love for art to the modern age. So much of 20th century art has centered on the rejection of beauty. The simple beauty of a landscape or a nude has been ridiculed by cynics who consider two World Wars sufficient excuse to destroy everything. hmmm i wouldn't call modernism cynical at all. i think he's missing that part of the reason why modernism was so against traditional beauty is because modernists saw how warmongering authoritarian governments used "beauty" as propaganda during WW1 and 2. for example he mentions landscapes, but the "simple beauty" of landscapes was co-opted by the nazis as part of their totalitarian aesthetic. much of modernism was an attempt to create a type of art that couldn't be co-opted. they wanted to free art from being instrumentalized and give it autonomy. some modernism was almost "romantic" in its utopian aspirations. modern architects thought they were going to help create a new and more equal society. ofc modernism turned out to be a something of a dead end and modernist architecture in particular was a resounding failure, but 20th c modernism i think can be understood as an extreme (and and culturally important) reaction to extreme times. anyway i understand the ToT aesthetic better now that ive read this.
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« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 11:48:51 AM by Silbereisen »
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b∀ kkusa
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« Reply #237 on: July 02, 2015, 01:04:52 PM » |
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the last paragraph is disgusting. the author is masturbating with his mind.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #238 on: July 02, 2015, 01:27:36 PM » |
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more like culture and value shock, I mean he has the exact same reaction for art that gamer have for game, he place what he care above everything else. That's the equivalent of "fucking casual and their hand holding shit".
Now gaming culture is literally pick your poison, deep culture and shallow mechanics or deep mechanics and shallow culture ... at least we have kojima we have deep pop, deep culture and deep mechanics it's almost weird.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #239 on: July 02, 2015, 09:58:12 PM » |
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Errant signal is at it
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