next »

[Pete301]

Hey guys,

I have almost finished a piano piece that I have been working on to practice my harmony, form and general composition. I wanted to get a pianist to play it but I haven't been able to just yet. So I have had to resort to using a virtual instrument, and not a very good one either.

My question to you guys is what are good ways of humanizing a piano? I know I have asked about humanization before but I want to know specifically how pianos are made to sound natural in a virtual world.

So far I have:

 - Fiddled with velocities
 - Made stuff slightly out of time occasionally
 - Very subtly arpeggiated some chords.

https://soundcloud.com/pete301/piano

Also, I'm currently using quite a poor plugin. If anyone knows of a great piano plugin I would appreciate knowing.

Composition critique is also welcome of course :D.

[ZackParrish]

http://impactsoundworks.com/products/piano-keyboard/pearl-concert-grand-piano/

Only piano I use anymore, well worth the $119. Uses a little under 3gb of RAM to load the main patch though so not ideal if you have a system lacking in RAM. I'll check out your track later and give some feedback on it.

[JK]

I think it's pretty good! Not sure what "humanizing" means in this scenario, so can't really speak to it.

The only thing is, I mostly hear it in my left ear. Is it mostly panned in that direction?

[ohaiguy]

I think it's pretty good! Not sure what "humanizing" means in this scenario, so can't really speak to it.

The only thing is, I mostly hear it in my left ear. Is it mostly panned in that direction?

Humanizing is just referring to making a sound more human!

As far as humanizing goes, other options are trying to get off the grid a bit more or, as you said, looking into velocity. You could also try to make the bass hand accent a bit more on particular hits (though, that might be a bit of a stylistic choice.) However, note that velocity is only as good as the samples will allow! If you don't have decent coverage, you might not get enough dynamic range.

That being said, I'd definitely look into getting a better piano plugin for the sake of the stereo spread and dynamic range here. I've heard great things about pearl. Haven't invested into it yet myself.

[auroraaa]

Humanizing is just referring to making a sound more human!

Sounding more 'human' sounds a bit strange. What's wrong with using the term 'realistic?'
Or perhaps you mean 'human' as in, the performance has the flaws of a human payer? Since a human can't play something at a consistent velocity and tempo. That makes sense, too.

poor plugin

I don't seehear any problems with it. The tricks(?) you've done to humanise your work make it believable enough to me, but I'm partially deaf in one ear, so my opinion wouldn't exactly be the best.

[Barendhoff]

Hey, for someone who isn't a pianist, this is really good! If you're looking for another plugin, perhaps check out 8dio's 1990 Prepared Grand Piano and 1990 Studio Grand Piano. There's a 35% discount on all products up until August 15th, so you can get the Prepared Grand Piano for $130. Still pricy, but 8dio's VSTs are quite brilliant.

Myself, I mostly use piano's in the far background, where they aren't playing very fast or demanding attention. So there isn't much I can tell you about humanizing piano VSTs, other than making sure that you use the VSTs functions, like the sustain CC, correctly, and keep an eye on the piano articulations. As mentioned before, introducing a little more off-the-grid timing to the notes can greatly help to have individual notes stand out and chords sound fuller.

Good luck!

[ohaiguy]

Humanizing is just referring to making a sound more human!

Sounding more 'human' sounds a bit strange. What's wrong with using the term 'realistic?'
Or perhaps you mean 'human' as in, the performance has the flaws of a human payer? Since a human can't play something at a consistent velocity and tempo. That makes sense, too.

Yeah, you've got it right. Some Digital Audio Workstations also refer to humanization as an actual effect that you can put on a midi performance. So, it's generally a good term to use. It's also a lot easier to say "I'm humanizing" instead of "I'm making something more realistic."

[Pete301]

Thanks for all the advice.

I will try messing with making it more off grid and articulating more of the low end to make it stand out more. 


Zack: I have had a listen to the examples using the pearl piano plugin and they sound great, I know it's insane to try and replicate what they provide in those examples but it will definitely be better than what I have now.

JK: yea it's the plugin that is causing it to be mostly left, I tried to compensate but retain some stereo spread but I don't think it worked that great.

Barendhoff: I will take a listen to what 8dio have to offer too. Something my current plugin is lacking is customisation. When I get a nice new one I will be sure to fiddle with the settings .

I will post back when I have updated and got a result I am happy with!

[Kyle Preston]

Don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but floor pedal noise ads a nice touch.  Before I bought a plugin that actually included it, I had some old recordings of different pedal noises that I would drop in the mix to make it feel more real. Key noises too 

Just bought Soniccouture's Hammersmith, which is actually pretty awesome, though I only just realized I probably would have been better off getting a nice upright piano collection instead; it feels way too formal trying to write ambient piano music on a grand piano. Those Steinways feel like they were built and optimized for good old classical music. 

[Canned Turkey]

Yeah they aren't the best for ambient stuff, but I got to play a Steinway for a concert recently and sweet baby jesus it was the smoothest and greatest piano I've ever played.

[ArnoldSavary]

Honestly, the only good trick to humanize a piano is... to record a performance. Even with the efforts you've made it still sounds robotic, and another plugin won't change that. Midi ports aren't a problem when they're part of a whole but for a solo instrument it will always be noticeable.

[Pete301]

Yea, I knew that I would need to record a performance in order to get the best out of it. I might go hunting for a pianist again soon .

I think I will put it to rest for now though, I spent a good portion of the weekend tinkering with different pedal timings and noises, changing the composition, fiddling with velocities and placing things slightly off the grid and out of time etc. Got a new plugin too.

I have deleted the old one from my soundcloud, I don't like having two versions of the same thing on there, but I realise that makes it quite difficult to compare, sorry.

https://soundcloud.com/pete301/pianov2

Thanks for all the advice.

[ZackParrish]

Honestly, the only good trick to humanize a piano is... to record a performance. Even with the efforts you've made it still sounds robotic, and another plugin won't change that. Midi ports aren't a problem when they're part of a whole but for a solo instrument it will always be noticeable.

I completely disagree with you about your first statement. You have a few things to learn about proper humanization if you really think that way.

[Kyle Preston]

Not to mention that most midi instruments literally are recorded performances. If the point you're trying to make is that capturing a good performance is better than a software instrument, I don't think anyone is going to dispute that; but not all of us have the budget/equipment/access to record the performances we want.  Midi instruments are just another tool for us and there's nothing wrong with trying to make the best of it. And they're constantly getting better and better.

Yeah they aren't the best for ambient stuff, but I got to play a Steinway for a concert recently and sweet baby jesus it was the smoothest and greatest piano I've ever played.

Yes. They are soooooo nice, I pass a Steinway shop on my way to work sometimes and the drooling just sort of happens.  

[ArnoldSavary]

When I said performance, I didn't necessarily mean recording actual audio - vst instruments are fine too of course ! What I meant is that you have to have somebody play the keyboard, be it midi or a piano, if you want to make a solo piece sound natural. That's why I said performance instead of recording, though rereading myself it wasn't really clear.
I do know a thing or two about humanization, but while it is theoretically possible to modify an exported midi track so that it sounds like somebody is playing, in practice it is really hard to get a good feel and it would take ages for a classical piece.