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[J-Snake]

If you look 10 years back, where Unity and nonprogrammer friendly engines weren't around, how many games were meant to be shoveled into public space compared to now?

[Alevice]

consideirng the snes catalogue, I think thousands

[Dragonmaw]

If you look 10 years back, where Unity and nonprogrammer friendly engines weren't around, how many games were meant to be shoveled into public space compared to now?

It's almost like you know jack shit about game history.

http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/835

[gimymblert]

NO game now, even with unity, is as broken as cheetahman 2 and its horde of broken pals, and that was in asm, you can't get any closer to intricacies of hardware than that! Not that dedicated hardware team still produce things like ass unity and arkham slideshow.

At best modern game are uninspired because of the low bar, but that's a long long deep tradition.

edit:
Let's not forget the basic era of programming where game where shared as code listing ...
ET a broken game collapsed the console market
etc ...

[Alevice]

Big Rigs
Bubsy 3d
etc

[s0]

consideirng the snes catalogue, I think thousands

nah, NES is where its at

once you look past the obvious nintendo, capcom and konami classics and the cult faves you'll find out that 90% of NES games are unplayable trash

[Alevice]

i didnt want to go very far, but i dont disagree with you tbh

there is a reason avgn started as the angry nintendo nerd. ljn anyone

also

Aliens: Colonial Marines

[Cobralad]

zelda was programmed on a torn piece of paper
modern steam game is not even programmed, its bobs shooter tutorial renamed

also the fact that people used to bleach spoiled milk with lead doesnt mean that we should tolerate chemical bleaches in milk.

[gimymblert]

doom like was doom renamed with some new assets

[starsrift]

The main problem is that games are instable mechanical systems. So a tiny change in mechanics can break them, even when they have more to offer like story, artistic beauty, etc. For example the game "Woolfe - The Red Hood Diaries" heavily suffered from mechanical issues, despite of its strong artistic value. This does not necessarily apply to every game.

Games are not mechanics or systems. Games are experiences.

The argument you made that someone who doesn't know that some mechanic or system in particular is possible holds as much as weight as it takes to do a Google search to find out how to do that thing, or post a thread in the relevant middleware forum for assistance in doing that thing.

Given to the extremity to which you have taken the opposite position and how it has formed your world-view, I don't expect you to necessarily see this truth. However, your stance has already proven to be incorrect, or else Trap Them would've made you a multimillionaire by now. Why you are still defending mechanics as the god of game design is quite frankly baffling.

[gimymblert]

I don't think his stance is incorrect, it's incomplete and lead to bad conclusion

[Alevice]

doom like was doom renamed with some new assets

whaaaat

[gimymblert]

doom created an engine, it was replicated almost identical with almost similar mechanics just with different theme, duke nukem, redneck rampage, shadow warrior, hexen, etc ... no different than using a tut and changing the assets

[Schoq]

the build engine was built independently from the ground up and can do a lot of things the doom engine can't so I don't see how that helps your argument tbh

[gimymblert]

it's a degree of difference, not entirely a new things, it's more hi level but they basically build on the doom trick, just like you can build on a tut or an engine.

And it's not like the gameplay was so vastly different, to my knowledge the most advanced stuff done was stacked room trick (essentially a kind of hidden teleportation of player and view point, the engine only dealt with a kind of heightmap) and being able to look up and down and that was duke nukem not all games.

[J-Snake]

If you look 10 years back, where Unity and nonprogrammer friendly engines weren't around, how many games were meant to be shoveled into public space compared to now?

It's almost like you know jack shit about game history.

http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/835

Subcultures always existed. But the term "indie" has a bigger public space than it had 10 years ago. And the popularity of public engines has increased by a large.

However, your stance has already proven to be incorrect, or else Trap Them would've made you a multimillionaire by now.

My stance doesn't have much to do with financial success here. Trap Them isn't a game for the average player in the first place. It is mainly designed for puzzle enthusiasts, it is a game that requires a lot of intellectual effort in order to be explored and completed. Most people rather want experiences which are easier to pick up and to flow along. Plus there is no real marketing strategy applied to the game. There are a lot of factors which determine sales anyway.

Why you are still defending mechanics as the god of game design is quite frankly baffling.

Mechanics aren't the "god" of game design, they are just a fundamental necessity that needs to be addressed.

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

Trap Them artstyle is stuck in the 80's btw... 

[J-Snake]

Yep, artistic production value hasn't been its strong point. It's all about puzzles.

[Dragonmaw]

J-Snake before you talk like a dum maybe you should learn the history of the medium you claim to know so much about.

[starsrift]

Why you are still defending mechanics as the god of game design is quite frankly baffling.

Mechanics aren't the "god" of game design, they are just a fundamental necessity that needs to be addressed.

From the emerging genre of 'walking simulators' (which typically convey emotion such as wonder, mystery, nostalgia, or terror) to barely-there gameplay like the 2013 hit Brothers - A Tale of Two Sons (conveying a delightful story of fraternity and the associated spectrum of emotions), your insistence upon mechanics and systems becomes increasingly more puzzling.
I don't know if it's a giant blind spot or if it's willful disbelief.