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[gimymblert]

That's because you don't what theme is, ie an interface, we are not computer we interface to information very differently. You care about "good" game, computer do not, all are the same for them.

[J-Snake]

we are not computer we interface to information very differently

Exactly. We interpret a feeling to a happening, a computer does not. That is why there are no violent mechanics, it is just your interpretation a computer doesn't have to make.

[gimymblert]

and the conclusion is?

[J-Snake]

That is the perfect time to direct this question to you, my friend.

[gimymblert]

Well you were in a middle of a demonstration my case has been done, interpretation is how we make sense of the world so what? it prove theme convey structure.

[J-Snake]

How is "happening" differ for you vs computer? Presentation is the key point. Like mentioned, a player is not a computer. In practice he is bound to a presentation. A computer can completely ignore this layer.

[gimymblert]

how does that relate to teh core of the discussion ie how to move away from violence suggested or not in game mechanics, which is a theme problem not a mechanical one? It's also an aesthetics one so I frown to easy disguise shuch as changing explosion to flower, shooting to bullshit and enemy to whatever, those are easy cop out to not think about gameplay ie mechanics outside of typical violent "mechanics", so they offer sub optimal sync with theme

[J-Snake]

I don't think there are violent mechanics in itself, only (more or less intricate) presentations which make them "feel" violent. Why don't you just try to think about mechanics you really want to include in the game first place, and then color them with a presentation that fits your theme? You have to know how important mechanics are to your game. If theme is very important to you and suggests one mechanic over the other then pick what is suitable. Just be honest with your design.

[gimymblert]

You can't have game like argument champion that way, nor you for gossip, the sims, lim and sims city, game that are vastly different that math problem optimization or shoot things with your pretend finger.

There is an infinite possibility of game with abstract theme, as there is an infinite with dress up violent mechanics, but still they tend to taste the same after a while, to extend we further push away toward a new direction.

[J-Snake]

You can't have game like argument champion that way, nor you for gossip, the sims, lim and sims city, game that are vastly different that math problem optimization or shoot things with your pretend finger.

For example Sim City could be pretty violent if the game would flesh out the presentation of more internal happening. Instead you get a high level abstracted overview in order to ease up complexity. In other words the game abstracts from many things, which exactly supports my argument why you don't perceive it as a violent game.

Elaborating: Why is a Mario jump violent to you, because of the jump-mechanic itself? Certainly not, otherwise you would consider trampoline jumping a violent activity. You only perceive it as something violent if it causes a violent presentation, like an enemy that is being "crushed to death". You can go about the same in Sim City and flesh out what you caused by making your decisions. It would be possible to turn it quickly into a violent game.

as there is an infinite with dress up violent mechanics, but still they tend to taste the same after a while

They all taste violent, but are not necessarily the same in terms of mechanics. Violent games can differ a lot from each other.

I will say it again, it is very important that you are honest with yourself about what you really want.

[gimymblert]

 

[J-Snake]

By filtering out non violent games you tend to exclude mechanics which involve high force and impact. And that can be helpful. But you might overlook that mechanics which involve high force and impact can still be non violent. Just because some cultural conditioning tends to mix high force and impact with violence doesn't mean it is the only way to go about it. That's my point in a nutshell.

May be you just search for mechanics which don't involve high force and impact, and just used the absence of "violence" and "fighting" as an intuitive indication for it.

[JWK5]

It is easy to start a violent game from the bottom up because we have already built a lot of frameworks to work with. Crafting non-violent games needs to be looked at top-down. Rather than needing more non-violent games or more non-violent mechanics, we are really just at the point of first needing more non-violent activities that can be made interesting enough to be worth turning into a game (which of course comes down to the creators themselves).

Violence is interesting because conflict is something that tends to draw immediate attention and demand a certain degree of sustained observation. There are non-violent activities that do as well, for non-violent action games those are what we really need to focus on finding before we dig into the mechanics or the aesthetics. Maybe a "non-violent" TIGS contest or such could help.

I do agree with J-Snake, though, that the mechanics themselves aren't really "violent" until they are given a violent aesthetic, but as is the case with any game mechanic formats some will suit certain core activities and aesthetics better than others.

[ｂ∀ ｋｋｕｓａ]

take Miami Hotline gameplay:

protagonist : a man who wants to bring happiness (let's say Patch Adams)

weapons: water pistol , water balloon , cream pies.

 when a enemy is hit , falls off laughing , enemies uses same weapons as you, melee enemies catch you and tickle you. when a dog runs at you , he tackles you and start licking your face, gameover.

commercial success : ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[s0]

You can't have game like argument champion that way, nor you for gossip, the sims, lim and sims city, game that are vastly different that math problem optimization or shoot things with your pretend finger.

sim city is literally a math problem wat ar eyou talking about

[gimymblert]

but a math problem is not sim city, the point is that we can all apply reductio ad absurDUM but I already point it at the scope of the problem.

It's not like I'm trying to ban violent game, I trying to create a space where we think about non violent activity don't map don't violent gameplay experience.

If you start with math problem I don't think that sim city is what you will think about, it's not an interesting math problem in itself, the theme aka the fantasy of being a mayor (with the mechanics that makes the population NEVER happy) use math to convey it (budget balance) rather than express the mathematical relation behind it, the counter example is triple town who was mechanic first and theme later and feel very differently.

The telling part in this discussion is teh resistance of people to try imagining new thing and accept to let go old pattern NOT FOREVER just here in this small place that DOES NOT disqualify violent game as much as it carve a space for thinking different(ly)

@Jsnake
I'm well aware of high impact, phoenix wright was based on the idea to bring fighting game ambiance to adventure game, the result is non violent hi impact retelling of court drama.

However I'm inciting a ban, I'm opening a door.