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[Border]

For the "how you get in" part, i was lucky enough to have a school mate that got a job and get me hired after. Before that was mainly doing art for Q2 /H1 Mod and show it into the portfolio.
Now i only make game for my kids and their friends, they are the best bosses. And when the whine that my game suck, i can still smack then behind the head. 

About the industry. Thing is here in Montreal; the evil put aside, the game industry abuse a lot of young talented people ( )  by using the  "Peeps in Montreal are sOoo creative"
It not just for the fun of hating the big one but more a real side effect. Unfortunately, i know a lot of friend who after being part of the machine, just hate it; like Fish.

[GregWS]

The thing that I couldn't believe about Montreal was when that news got out about companies collaborating to try and keep wages down. 

I mean, that's not just unethical, it's illegal as far as I'm aware. 

[Farbs]

Working in "The Industry" can be a really good way to meet and learn from talented people. Also there's no better way to learn gamedev than to do it 40 hours a week, which is difficult when it's not your source of income. I don't think building a waaahll between indie and mainstream helps anybody. Yes, some companies are cocks. That's no reason to avoid all of them.

[GregWS]

Yes, some companies are cocks. That's no reason to avoid all of them.

I don't disagree with that.

[Saint]

How did this turn into a "How to get into the games industry and why you shouldn't try" thread?

For the graffiti in the Darkness most of us got to submit our handles, and the AD and a bunch of graffiti artists would then create a tag to be used in-game. Mine was cut though, I had asked them to do a stick-figure saint icon and some people feared legal action from Paramount.

Also, Vin Diesel came by our offices a while back as he was returning home from shooting in northern Europe (I assume this was for Babylon A.D.), only the time which he was supposed to arrive was pushed back several times and it was hinted he might not have the time. When he finally arrived it happened without notice and my office was kind of out of the way so I completely missed the whole thing. The entourage passed by before leaving so I could say hello and shake his hand, but I missed the team photo shoot.

... So if anyone buys Dark Athena and unlocks the Riddick Team Photo, I won't be in it. I am starting to suspect management wants to pretend I'm not working here

[Movius]

Yeah, I have no idea why anyone would want to get into the games industry; video games are cool and all that, but the game industry is just brutal.  I mean, it's bloody got the word "industry" in it.  Can you think of any nice, good work environment "industries?"  Clearly, it's all about profit, and I doubt anyone who wants to get into the game industry wants to do it to make someone else rich (or broke).

I've worked (in IT) in the defence, Japanese real-estate and THE MAN sectors. All offered me excellent working environments. Better than anything that was being offered in the video game industry anyway, with the added bonus of additional cash dollars too.

Defence is of particular note to those inclined towards programming here. Theres a lot of overlap in skills between video game development and defence software development.

[Alex May]

I'd have real issues with working in defense. Basically I wouldn't take a job doing that whatever the money.

[Gainsworthy]

How did this turn into a "How to get into the games industry and why you shouldn't try" thread?

For the graffiti in the Darkness most of us got to submit our handles, and the AD and a bunch of graffiti artists would then create a tag to be used in-game. Mine was cut though, I had asked them to do a stick-figure saint icon and some people feared legal action from Paramount.

Also, Vin Diesel came by our offices a while back as he was returning home from shooting in northern Europe (I assume this was for Babylon A.D.), only the time which he was supposed to arrive was pushed back several times and it was hinted he might not have the time. When he finally arrived it happened without notice and my office was kind of out of the way so I completely missed the whole thing. The entourage passed by before leaving so I could say hello and shake his hand, but I missed the team photo shoot.

... So if anyone buys Dark Athena and unlocks the Riddick Team Photo, I won't be in it. I am starting to suspect management wants to pretend I'm not working here

Ah, this is terrible luck. REGARDLESS, you're from Starbreeze? Major respect, Saint! I am eyeing Dark Athena hungrily. I'm sure you'll get personal items in a game some day! Unless you are cursed. Or like you say, the Management team wants to hide the fact you work for them. Some kind of conspiracy, yes...

[Synnah]

I can understand the bitterness towards the industry; there are companies who will dick you around. I've been relatively lucky in that respect (Although I guess it could be argued that considering my upcoming job will be the longest testing contract I've had, at just over a year, not getting a lot of job security as QA kind of sucks. I've always known this was how things are, though), but I've seen it happen. I am pretty picky about where I work, though. My first job was at Codemasters, and while I was working on something that was developed in-house, it was essentially the same as working on something developed externally, as we were so distanced from the dev team. Since then, however, I've only worked for developers, as internal QA, and I've generally found things to be pleasant.

So, some tips for retaining your sanity in the Games Industry: Don't work for a giant publisher. EA, Activision, Microsoft. Just.. don't. Don't work for mobile companies; This one's a bit more QA specific, as I assume that developing for mobile phones is less soul-destroying that testing on them, but it's good advice either way, I think. Make sure the developer has a reputation for creativity. This is really limiting your options, sadly, but there are still a lot of genuinely creative and passionate companies out there.

Also:

Yeah, I have no idea why anyone would want to get into the games industry; video games are cool and all that, but the game industry is just brutal.  I mean, it's bloody got the word "industry" in it.  Can you think of any nice, good work environment "industries?"

I think this is a little unfair. There are lots of games companies that provide excellent working environments for their employees; I've heard excellent things about IO and Crytek in Denmark and Germany respectively, and I'd be inclined to add Lionhead and Ninja Theory to that list, from my own experiences. And like Farbs said, it's a great way to meet interesting and talented people, and to get paid to focus on something you might not get the chance to focus on otherwise.

[Alex May]

So, some tips for retaining your sanity in the Games Industry: Don't work for a giant publisher. EA, Activision, Microsoft. Just.. don't.

Easier said than done - most people have no control over who their employers sign games with, and indeed their employers themselves might have nowhere left to turn. Would you work for EA if it meant keeping your company afloat?

[Synnah]

Easier said than done - most people have no control over who their employers sign games with, and indeed their employers themselves might have nowhere left to turn. Would you work for EA if it meant keeping your company afloat?

Good point, I guess. But working for a decent studio that's having a game published by the likes of EA is still several magnitudes better than working directly for EA. The only noticeable knock-ons are having to deal with a shambolic QA department (No offense to any EA testers..), and being forced to cut a load of stuff, or release buggy code in order to make a deadline.

[Saint]

Ah, this is terrible luck. REGARDLESS, you're from Starbreeze? Major respect, Saint! I am eyeing Dark Athena hungrily. I'm sure you'll get personal items in a game some day! Unless you are cursed. Or like you say, the Management team wants to hide the fact you work for them. Some kind of conspiracy, yes...

Haha, thanks =)

I was exaggerating slightly, there is a picture of me on a bounty card in Dark Athena. look out for 'Jonny "The String" Casino'

[gunswordfist]

i got in the game industry, spent the worst 2-3n years of my life, got the fuck out of the industry, doing much better now thank you.

Yeah, I have no idea why anyone would want to get into the games industry; video games are cool and all that, but the game industry is just brutal.  I mean, it's bloody got the word "industry" in it.  Can you think of any nice, good work environment "industries?"  Clearly, it's all about profit, and I doubt anyone who wants to get into the game industry wants to do it to make someone else rich (or broke).

That pretty much what I think but less harsh. heh heh There are people who work hard enough to be free to make pretty much any kind of game they want too (like Tim Schafer...but then again those idiots at Best Buy or Wal-Mart or whatever actually wanted him to completely change Psychonauts because they didn't 'get' it and just ended up marketing)....you know what? POINT OVER! This just reminded me of the BS that Wal-Mart, Best Buy, etc. pulls on many major games. Now I see where you're coming from. The game industry has a VERY small window for people to make the kind of games they want to. That's why I completely ditched any plans to get into 'the industry' and I'm trying to go indie. I just don't have patience for that.

So how do you plan on getting money for living without getting into any industry ? Even being indie you are a part of it.

Sure -- "all industries are evil" is a nice and funky sentiment, but it's a bit naive. It really all depends on who (could be yourself) you work for and why. There's lots of bad vibes to get from working on games for sure, but there's also plenty of fun to be had if you find the correct people/company/style/whatever.
 

Yes but you'd have to get VERY lucky and wait years to get into the industry which obviously won't be getting you paid while you wait.

[TeeGee]

That's why I completely ditched any plans to get into 'the industry' and I'm trying to go indie. I just don't have patience for that.

And how is making indie games not being a part of the gaming industry ?

Yes but you'd have to get VERY lucky and wait years to get into the industry which obviously won't be getting you paid while you wait.

Well, I would say it's more about knowing what you want and not expecting your nearest EA-like company to be a Rock'n'Roll Fun-Camp for Cool and Creative People.
Also, you don't have to wait in idleness for getting 'in'. You can release indie games in the mean time. Actually, you can just go indie and stay there. "Finding the right people" might be as well "finding cool mates to go indie with" for you.

What I'm really hitting at here, is that calling gaming industry 'evil', or suggesting that all people who work for big companies are morons, is unfair to the great and creative folks who do happen to be there (and some frequent these boards). There are people in the AAA industry who want to make games above all else, but just prefer the AAA epic scale over small indie titles. It's a perfectly fine choice.
In this very moment, I'm wondering if I'm gonna spend the rest of the evening with Order of Ecclesia or should I be playing Warcraft3 online. Both these great games wouldn't be here if not the 'evil' big companies. You guys sometimes seem to forget that many great titles we cherish haven't magically appeared out of nowhere, but were made by actual people. Even if they worked behind the mask of a big faceless corp.

[gunswordfist]

That's why I completely ditched any plans to get into 'the industry' and I'm trying to go indie. I just don't have patience for that.

And how is making indie games not a part of the gaming industry ?

Yes but you'd have to get VERY lucky and wait years to get into the industry which obviously won't be getting you paid while you wait.

Well, I would say it's more about knowing what you want and not expecting your nearest EA-like company to be a Rock'n'Roll Fun-Camp for Cool and Creative People.
Also, you don't have to wait in idleness for getting 'in'. You can release indie games in the mean time. Actually, you can just go indie and stay there. "Finding right people" might be as well "finding cool mates to go indie with" for you (it is pretty much for me).

What I'm really hitting at here is that calling gaming industry 'evil', or suggesting that people who work for big companies are morons, is just unfair to all these great and creative folks who do happen to be there (and some frequent these boards). There are people in the AAA industry who want to make games above all else, but just prefer the AAA epic scale over small indie titles. It's a perfectly fine choice.
In this very moment, I'm wondering if I'm gonna spend the rest of the evening with Order of Ecclesia or should I be playing Warcraft3 online with my mate. Both these great games wouldn't be here if not the 'evil' big companies. You guys sometimes seem to forget that many great games we cherish here haven't magically appeared in this world, but were made by actual human beings. Even if they worked behind the mask of a big faceless corp.

 

Well I did put 'the industry' in ''. You know what I mean.

I know there are talented people out there. I'd be stupid to ignore them just because they work for EA. In fact, many great companies are part of EA (DICE, Valve, Crytek, Criterion and they even got Free Radical) It's just that many of these greedy companies can ruin it for many of those guys. And I never used the word evil. I think it's one of the dumbest words ever made. Things aren't as simple as good and evil.

[r.kachowski]

Defence is of particular note to those inclined towards programming here. Theres a lot of overlap in skills between video game development and defence software development.

wow... any non-classified examples you could give?
is maintaining a 2d array of tiles bizzarrely similar to the path of an icbm?

[Lynx]

Well, games themselves can feature into military training; for instance, I worked at a company that subsequently spun off a division oriented toward simulations for government purposes.

I don't think tile engines are all that defense-related but I could see AI pathfinding experience being interesting for defense contractors working on robots that would automatically navigate minefields, for instance.

[Lurk]

There are some useful techniques to survive the industry:
-Never take a project to heart: THEY are funding the project, they get to decide what the end result is. Care about improving your techniques/skills during production, not about what is going to end up on the shelves.
-Be efficient, know your own capacities and don't lie about it: if it takes 20 hours, don't try to do it in 2. Plan 20 hours; if it does'nt fit the schedule, cut somewhere(usually in your overall satisfaction towards the end result).
-Be political. If you do crazy overtime everyday, you're a slave. If you do it once, the day the boss actually stays to survey progress, you're a hero. You might want to take a long shower afterward. It's also a good idea to start your day at the same time as the bigger players, and not earlier. I've seen people who would come in very early in the morning, being bad mouthed for leaving early.
-Don't take it too seriously. You're being paid to texture a bare-chested man running around waving a gunsword, yelling bad one-liners, commiting various crimes again'st good taste and overall morality. It could be a loooooot worse. Trust me.
-Make good, disgruntled friends, share beers and stories. 

[Melly]

-Don't take it too seriously. You're being paid to texture a bare-chested man running around waving a gunsword, yelling bad one-liners, commiting various crimes again'st good taste and overall morality. It could be a loooooot worse. Trust me.

Something tells me you know exactly how worse. And something tells me you'll tell us. Actually, I'm telling you to.

[Lurk]

 

Something tells me you know exactly how worse.

Well, I've seen some pretty depressing stuff over the years. A co-worker was telling me how he had been working on a project for over a year now, a very piss-poor mainstream oriented product. And the design team kept making things along as they went, changing ideas(throwing assets away)every month/week. He was talking about how his art team was extremely depressed, then how his best artist left(burned out), and in the middle of all this gloomy atmosphere, he had to go to meetings with the lead designer/project leader who was in a jubilatory mood, thinking everything was just greatly working. I would find it hard to live with on a good project, one I would feel involved emotionally with. Buy on an evidently commercial, soulless product? That's just wrong. And he still has at least 2 years to go on this jewel...talk about wasting your life...

I had to work with a project lead who wanted to do art direction. He kept asking me to change details on a character concept "can you make him more desiccated?" "Can he look paler?" "Can you make his flesh look like dead flesh?" and some abstract requests that just made me look up blankly "We really need to feel the wounds in his flesh are actually his feelings for the loss of his father". 3 weeks later, he comes over the concept and says "Now he looks like an old lady". I went straight to the producer and said "This guy does'nt talk to me directly anymore. If he wants to ask for something, he needs to go through the art director." It was nothing personal again'st me though, because he would unhesitatingly throw away weeks of level artist work he micro-managed every step of the way, saying "This looks awful" or "It looks like a golf course". Eventually, they allowed him to retire, pretending he was ill, and replaced him with someone with lower standards.
 
I had to do some marketing promo once, around the same time I lost most of my soul, coincidentally. I had to draw a half-naked female with huge breasts. At first, I tried to instill some dignity in the process, sketching some tasteful posings. I was asked to make it sexier. A lot sexier. So I went cynical on it, drawing the absolute WORST INNUENDO POSSIBLE. On sketch had her holding her sword between her breasts, licking it. Another had her sitting on the ground, legs sprawled opened, a sword in the ground near her crotch, blood covering her like so much red sperm. I was laughing all the way through the process, pretty sure it would be refused. How wrong I was. They liked the one on the floor. I managed to change some things in the posture, still keeping the original's spirit(instead of blood, I put small, gooey water rivulets )Still...Marketing work is always pretty depressing...