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TIGSource ForumsDeveloperPlaytestingNOMAD - Mouse-less experimental cover-based shooter Engine!
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physdick
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« on: August 21, 2015, 01:25:08 PM »

NOMAD will be a post-apocalyptic action roguelike with some incremental elements.

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=50202.0

I've been experimenting in making a top down shooter engine which does not use the mouse and I really need some feedback on it, especially the 2 player functionality. Basically you shoot the direction you are facing. HOWEVER, there is also a built in cover system, so when shooting from cover, the bullets will fire towards the nearest enemy in the general direction you are facing.

The controls are described on a rather WIP opening screen


GIF:


Download:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/31ropmlw8vdj40d/TDSPLAYER.exe?dl=0

DEVLOG
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=50202.0

Graphically it's not much to look at at the moment, I just need some feedback on the engine.

Thanks!!
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 06:13:23 AM by physdick » Logged
Cpaz
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2015, 11:59:52 AM »

 Well, I guess first and foremost. Allow us to exit the game, in-game. Alt-tabbing out is very annoying.
 But as for the engine itself. Its very interesting. I wouldn't say perfect, but it wields allot of potential.
 Aiming is very clunky. Perhaps using IJKL or the arrow keys to aim?
 And finally, the msot annoying thing about this game: the download link. Please use dropbox, or something else that doesn't require me to right click and save a link. It'll get you much farther, trust me.
But overall a good experiment. I'll keep up to date if this goes anywhere.
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physdick
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2015, 06:15:43 AM »

Thanks for the feedback Cpaz, I've tried to improve the aiming a bit more so that you can lock on out of cover as long as you're close enough. I've also added random maps and an incremental-style buying menu for getting allies and health and would love some feedback on that as well.

Also you could press Esc to exit the game all this time Wink
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CarbonHack
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« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2015, 05:19:41 AM »

Hi!

Making a smooth running top-down shooter without a mouse-aim is quite challenging task. Tbh I'm not sure if I remember any contemporary input that works with satisfying results. Shooting in the direction you move feels very rough and clunky - or hard-core retrograde if you wish. Using arrow keys to aim might make it little more intuitive, but also will higher up difficulty a lot. Just out of curiosity, why you're so hesistant to use mouse aim?

On a brighter side, your hiding mechanism works pretty well - it's fun and plays out really good. Also, oponent AI is amazing, feels surprisingly natural. To the point that I re-read your description just to make sure it's not an online game Smiley Good job!



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physdick
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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2015, 02:25:18 PM »

Thanks for replying!

Well I'm not using mouse aim partly to experiment and partly cos it unlocks keyboard multiplayer and people can play it on laptops without a mouse! However I do want to push players towards using cover more and relying on (and helping) their AI teammates as the point of the game is to build a rebel army. I'd rather they feel more like a cog than the actual machine itself if that makes sense? When you have mouse control it is too easy to ignore the cover system altogether and just start strafing I found.
Maybe I should upload a version where you start with teammates?
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mtarini
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« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2015, 01:22:16 PM »

*VERY* interesting experiment. I think you are getting somewhere.

Love the potential you have at strategies. I'm also fascinated by the concept of cover-based combat (pinning down, maneuvering to get enemies in cross fires, suppression fire, etc).  This games captures it in an unprecedented way. Keep the good work up!
AI feels surprisingly alive. I loved the concept of auto-aiming from cover, it reflects beautifully how more accurate you are when firing from cover.

My first impressions on a few issues:

gameplay: I felt bullets are way too slow: I don't need cover if I can dodge bullets them so easily by just getting out of the way. This is especially true as the auto-aim (and the AI) targets the position where the target is, not where it will be assuming it will keep the same speed (i.e. it doesn't "walk" the target). I wonder how it plays with significantly faster bullets.

Note: if this is done, firerate should probably go down.

Controls: I felt like I had to push far too many keys at once, like when I have to: hold down [Cover] and two directions (to shoot diagonally), and then tap [Fire]. It felt like being an octopus pianist. I continuously pressed/depressed/tapped the wrong keys. Maybe it would have been better if the [Cover] button acted as a switch between Cover and FreeMove statuses. If so, you probably need to represent that graphically. E.g. In your temporary block style, I would just squeeze the block-guy over the wall whenever they are in cover mode.

Hum, yes, I think that would be definitely better, at least for me, because my left hand (WASD-ing) would have to keep keys pressed, while my right hand (firing and covering) would have to tap keys, so by brain would have an easier job.

Strategy: overall, the shooting feels a bit too continuous. I think a cool off time, like a short reload time every six bullets or something, might add to the strategy, possibly leading to, for example: making opponents take turns while firing at each other from cover; making it convenient to time the escape to the next cover; making combined suppression fire (from multiple friends) more effective than single ones, etc

Aiming: it got a bit weird when you, for example, you need to get out of cover by moving on the left, and fire downward. You need to: press the left key, then the press the down key, then release the left key, then fire. A bit difficult to grasp at first, and exacerbates the octopus effect. But I cannot suggest any solution here.

Unimportant details:

Graphics: I know, it is just a placeholder, but still I would have tested your concept better if graphics didn't get in the way. To me, the colors are not nearly distinguishable enough, especially red and green. I'm just a bit colorblind, and it took me the occasional second look to be sure to tell enemies and friends apart, which is a pain in this kind of game.

Level mechanics: also  just a placeholder, but I don't get it: after a level, am I supposed to just wait until I get enough money to buy things, trading player's boredom for character's power?
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physdick
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« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2015, 01:12:02 AM »

Thanks for the extremely comprehensive feedback here, I'll try work through it in order!


With regards to the bullets, originally they moved much faster and lead the target, but I stripped the game back and tried to give it more arcadey-feel. This was because it seemed more fun to be able to dodge the potential bullet hell and more forgiving if you were caught out of cover. Also, if the player ends up on their own or wants to challenge themselves by not using allies, it is possible to do so. Otherwise the AI ruthlessly destroys you haha.
This being said, I will play around with the speed as one thing I want to happen is to push the player towards fighting from cover more than the traditional "dodge duck dip dive and die" method of bullet hell shooters.


With the control style, this might be down to preference. I feel it flows a lot easier if you can just release cover when you need to and get running, however I'll remember what you said and add an option to toggle!


Believe it or not they should be popping in and out of cover at intervals, I'll try tweak that thanks.


I take your points on aiming! It might be possible to add some pathfinding to the cover system and make it so you only have to press down to pop out and shoot down.


And finally, my idea for the game was for it to be like an incremental game but with gameplay, however your the second person who's said it's a bit boring doing wait to win, so I'm gonna develop it further but if it's pants I'll scrap it.


Again thanks!

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