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[Richard Kain]

Retro VGS - a new old system

The link above is to a new indiegogo campaign for a rather interesting throwback system. We've seen plenty of legacy/retro products in the past few years. Most notable would probably be Hyperkin's offerings. (such as the Retron5) But the proposed Retro VGS is a bit of an old take on the concept.

For starters, it won't play any old games. It is not intended as a clone system. It isn't going to have a network adapter built into the system. The system's firmware won't be upgrade-able. Any games made for the system will not be patch-able. It will take cartridges, and only cartridges.

As far as the general mainstream consumer is concerned, this thing is a train-wreck that will never get off the ground. The proposed specifications basically flies in the face of design progress made over the past three decades. At the same time, it is easily the most "true" retro system that I've ever heard proposed. And while there are massive disadvantages associated with what this team is trying to achieve, there are also certain advantages that are only possible with what they want to produce.

I'm not certain that their campaign will succeed, but it is definitely worth a look.

[bombjack]

the link doesn't work 

[Cobralad]

There appears to be some support from indies although i wonder what tech specs of this thing are, considering that some modern pixel indies have fancy shaders that kill framerate on a five-year old pc or laptop.
Although these days you just need to have unity support on your device and youre ok.

also there is no way they are getting 2 mil and sell a 200$ retro console outside of american hipster dens. They should redo their campaign and seek investors.

[Richard Kain]

the link doesn't work  

I have corrected the issue, the link should work now. It always annoys me that different message boards handle the scripting differently. I'm always running into these little details.

also there is no way they are getting 2 mil and sell a 200$ retro console outside of american hipster dens. They should redo their campaign and seek investors.

It's actually $300 USD, not $200. I believe that they are intending to seek other investors, but I do agree that their campaign target is a bit on the ambitious side. I also agree that the market for such a device is going to be inherently limited by its very nature. For classic game collectors and retro developers, the thing would be a dream come true. But for just about anyone else it would be little more than a curiosity, and certainly not intriguing enough to purchase.

[bombjack]

I like the idea but I can't see how they could succeed where Ouya, PlaystationTV and others already failed.
Moreover, we're no more in a cartridge era. I hope I'm wrong.
Eventually, if it priced around 59-99$, I could see a real potential but the manufacturing cost of the cartridges could be the real issue.
Especially, if targeting indie developers... few cartridge => high cost.
Anyway I'd really like to see it become a reality.

[Richard Kain]

The chances of the device ever going below a $100 price-point are extremely low. Since it can't be subsidized through software licensing, the hardware always has to be sold for a profit. And given the very nature of the device, sales of the system itself would probably never raise to the million+ units level. While they would benefit from lowered manufacturing costs over time, they would never really be able to benefit from major volume discounts. So the price of the system would lower slightly over time, but nowhere near the numbers we see from modern subsidized hardware systems.

And as you pointed out, the per-cartridge price for developers is never going to be low. Even with a purely standardized cartridge, we would still be talking $10+ per cartridge for manufacturing, and probably no less than $15-$20 cost for the developer per cartridge. (they have to sell the manufactured cartridges for a profit as well) The developer could turn around and sell the games for $60+, but they would never be able to sell them for the kind of prices that most modern games eventually drop to. And they would never be able to afford to distribute them in the kind of numbers that modern games see.

On the face of it, this thing could never compete in the standard console market. It just couldn't. The nature of what it is would prevent it.

That said, I think there is a potential niche for it in the collectors market. Game collectors and retro enthusiasts would love a console like this. Not only would they be able to acquire physical copies of games in the style they love, but those games would by their very nature be incredibly rare. With the limitations of this system, most of the titles developed and distributed for it are going to have miniscule fraction of the quantity associated with most other consoles. They will be incredibly rare right out of the gate, and will likely remain so, even through future printings. The game collectors market will likely have frothing demand for any copies of games produced for the Retro VGS. While a $60 price-tag might seem strange to modern games for cartridges like this, the collectors market would pay that much without even thinking about it.

[Christian Knudsen]

This project is a pipe dream. The guy they had working on hardware boards (kevtris) has been sharing stories of how completely disorganized they are. They haven't even decided on hardware yet, and the stories he tells very much point at hardware creep (the project started out as a $180 console, I believe). All they have are the molds and rights to produce original Jaguar casings. That's the only hardware they have. The plastic casings. Oh, and some already existing controllers that have received poor reviews. The main guy behind it has also been alienating the very community he depends on for something like this to be successful (by referring to valid criticism as "negative chatter" and "the opinions of people that are misinformed" -- with one of those people being the very guy they originally worked with to produce the boards!). It's dead in the water.

[Richard Kain]

This project is a pipe dream. It's dead in the water.

This is unfortunate to hear. I would really like to see a system like this come to pass. But a lot of what you're saying about the behind-the-scenes going-ons isn't encouraging. That kind of drama and friction often short-circuits such efforts. You need a solid, united team to bring something like this to completion. I'll still be keeping an eye on the campaign, but will do so with a bit of skepticism until I see some real momentum.

[Superb Joe]

i place my trust unconditionally in people who arent professional or skilled enough to make things and also don't have the money to make them either. retro vgs i honour you.

[SirNiko]

I could see them building custom PCs that fit in the Jaguar case in the same way that some people rig up faux arcade cabinets and sell them at a premium price to interested individuals. There's no way the market would support this on a larger scale than that.

On the other hand, a business plan that involves suckering folks who don't understand the difference between "invest" and "pre-order" is based on very sound precedent.

[Christian Knudsen]

This is unfortunate to hear. I would really like to see a system like this come to pass.

Apparently the kevtris guy is looking into selling the boards he has developed, so something similar may still get made.

I could see them building custom PCs that fit in the Jaguar case in the same way that some people rig up faux arcade cabinets and sell them at a premium price to interested individuals.

Apparently they already made back the cost of the moulds ($6000) by making and selling transparent Jaguar casings.

[s0]

Apparently they already made back the cost of the moulds ($6000) by making and selling transparent Jaguar casings.

what a heck

who even buys those

[Christian Knudsen]

These guys:

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/233486-translucent-jaguar-console-pre-orders/

[Garthy]

Ouch.

http://nintendolegend.com/2015/09/interview-kevin-kevtris-horton-on-the-retro-vgs/

"Kevin: Haha.   It was a dead duck 5 months ago, and it remains a dead duck.  Only now the duck has been gold plated and made in the USA and is designed to last 100 years."

[quantumpotato]

I like the idea but I can't see how they could succeed where Ouya, PlaystationTV and others already failed.
Moreover, we're no more in a cartridge era. I hope I'm wrong.
Eventually, if it priced around 59-99$, I could see a real potential but the manufacturing cost of the cartridges could be the real issue.
Especially, if targeting indie developers... few cartridge => high cost.
Anyway I'd really like to see it become a reality.

Yeah.. what was that about a $180 console? They're asking for 2 million. I understand hardware is expensive but come on.

And who's doing the testing to ensure games are bug free? These guys want to be Nintendo but even Nintendo is having to innovate -- they've partnered with a gamedevshop to make iOS games.

I admit cartridges are nice but this isn't very well thought out.

[s0]

cartridges are "nice" but theyre also a waste of resources, not to mention super inconvenient for people who are on the move a lot (like me).

[Cobralad]

thats not why i bought battle garegga reproduction arcade cabinet with custom time crisis 2 gun to stand in my basement while i play new 4 player coop game on my yutube show

[Richard Kain]

cartridges are "nice" but theyre also a waste of resources, not to mention super inconvenient for people who are on the move a lot (like me).

It's impossible to produce a product that is truly for "everyone." There will always be some sub-set of humanity who just don't want what you're selling. And that's fine. Everyone has different circumstances, not every product needs to be targeted at the largest possible swath of people. Cartridges may not be for you and your lifestyle. But there are quite a few people that they would appeal to.

[MrBones]

it looks cool and all I guess, but is there really any benefit to using it besides just looking cool? Cartridges are cool but pretty inefficient compared to today's standards, and by creating a "retro" system you're really just chopping off the ability to add certain features (i.e. Multiplayer).