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TIGSource ForumsPlayerGeneralThe indiepocalypse
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desdemian
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« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2015, 03:30:57 PM »

Mushroom 11 sold only 2.000?

 WTF

That is definitely not good.
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Xonatron
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« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2015, 07:32:54 PM »

That makes me sad. Mushroom 11 deserved better. Can I use the word deserve? I don't often like this word.

EDIT: Wait... it's only been a week or so and it appears to be climbing:
https://steamspy.com/app/243160
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Matthew Doucette, Xona Games
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« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2015, 02:09:19 AM »

It's not surprising for the type of game it is. I remember Colin Northway saying Incredipede had only sold about 10,000 units before it went into the Humble Bundle, and I'd put them in a similar quality/genre bracket. I'm guessing these side on physics-y platformers(?) aren't big opening month sellers. I think it'll do alright in the end, but might be more of a slow burner.
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« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2015, 08:14:19 PM »

The real question is this: Is your game a product to be sold, or an expression to be heard?
If the latter, you shouldn't be worried, because money should be the least of your concerns.

This racket is like being in any creative industry; if your motivation is money, you're probably making something that's not worth a damn, even to yourself.

Let the greedy clone-factories and free-to-play companies worry about the Indiepocalypse while we invest our time in more substantial concepts like artistic expression, storytelling, and the medium of video games, itself.


If it gets too shaky you've always got the option of getting a proper job and developing on the side.
 Cry
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Xonatron
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« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2015, 11:57:54 AM »

Good post, charliecarlo.
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Matthew Doucette, Xona Games
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« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2015, 09:21:06 PM »



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Zorg
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« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2015, 02:38:23 AM »

He used a screenshot of Painters Guild in his presentation (#18). Smiley
In a negative connotation (too many retro-graphic games). Sad
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Xonatron
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« Reply #47 on: November 03, 2015, 05:05:05 AM »

He used a screenshot of Painters Guild in his presentation (#18). Smiley
In a negative connotation (too many retro-graphic games). Sad

Lack of differentiation:
https://youtu.be/B2gwWWZ1T9E?t=14m5s
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Matthew Doucette, Xona Games
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gimymblert
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« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2015, 09:40:02 AM »

he call it a platformer lol
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Cobralad
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« Reply #49 on: November 03, 2015, 09:47:23 AM »

jimmy would have a heart atack if he could read that dudes russian twitter.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 09:53:13 AM by Cobralad » Logged
jamesprimate
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« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2015, 07:16:42 PM »

He used a screenshot of Painters Guild in his presentation (#18). Smiley
In a negative connotation (too many retro-graphic games). Sad

Lack of differentiation:
https://youtu.be/B2gwWWZ1T9E?t=14m5s

thats kind of silly though, considering that the most successful 3D AAA titles right now are all either assassins creed clones, COD clones or sports games, which all are visually and mechanically utterly identical. Unless the message is that MOST games lack differentiation, which could be a perfectly valid if applied in a limited fashion: when Super Meat Boy and FEZ came out, there werent so many other things like them, so the opportunity was there for them to define the genre. but extrapolated, that observation is so vague and a total non-starter: "So many movies just feature people talking and doing things, no wonder they arent successful!" "Im so bored with cars, they all have 4 wheels and move in a linear fashion, wth so boring!" "Whats with food? Its mostly just combination of meat, vegetables and starches. Cant we move beyond this???" "Clothes, UGH!"

I seriously dont think that its the presentation thats the problem. Humans generally have no problem with form-factors they are familiar with, they just want to enjoy the format they like with a sprinkle of spice added with their meat and potatoes or superhero movies. A little twist.

He goes on to say that its a marketing problem, which it surely is to a certain degree, and differentiation *is* a part of that. There is no doubt about the two principal driving factors behind all of this: lowered barrier to entry creates a signal-to-noise problem, and so many highly publicized mythological indie success stories give the impression that getting millions from your little game idea is a common thing, creating legions upon legions of people competing to reproduce these successes, but for an ever-decreasing slice of whats already a fairly niche pie.

Another very significant thing that has happened in the past 5 years or so is the huge surge in the scope and reach of gaming journalism, which went from Nintendo Power type / IGN industry shills to an impressively mature, critically-focused liberal arts platform (read offworld if you disagree with me.) These journalists are usually highly (game) experienced, progressively-minded people who are very passionate about games as a genre, and obviously they actualize this by promoting games that they see as moving the medium forward. And this follows through with conventions, critical awards, etc etc, of which there are now so many of. But that perspective is completely, thoroughly, 100% not necessarily representative of general gaming buying audience, sales or consumer appeal. So games that appeal to this group have the potential to be hyped to a huge degree, being featured on the front page of every cool games site along side billion dollar AAA games, win all sorts of awards, yet sell almost nothing. (*cold sweats*)

So for a developer, the way forward is pretty cloudy: Do a game focused on the consumer, and its likely to be lost in the midst of 1000 others doing the exact same. Do a progressive game targeted toward journalists and their ilk, and risk the possibility that nobody else cares. Sure its rough, but then why shouldn't it be? At least with crowdfunding you can pre-test interest and be paid while you make your box office failure!  Toast Right
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« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2015, 04:36:20 AM »

^ best post in thread so far  Hand Thumbs Up Left
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Cobralad
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« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2015, 06:55:03 AM »

Galyonkins only gaming credit is marketing for Prime World: Defenders.
Everyone was like "its a td game" and he was like "no, we have CARDS"
He also did marketing for Space Rogue, preaching about horizontal indie team structure and valve meritocracy until he left to a big f2p publisher mid-development. Otherwise he is just former game journalist that mansplains feminism in his twitter.
Steam Spy is good, but fuck this guys opinions.
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« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2015, 08:01:26 AM »

So for a developer, the way forward is pretty cloudy: Do a game focused on the consumer, and its likely to be lost in the midst of 1000 others doing the exact same. Do a progressive game targeted toward journalists and their ilk, and risk the possibility that nobody else cares. Sure its rough, but then why shouldn't it be? At least with crowdfunding you can pre-test interest and be paid while you make your box office failure!  Toast Right

There's also people like Jeff Vogel and Jake Birkett who make solid games for niche audiences.  I look to them for inspiration more than I do AAA or III developers.
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« Reply #54 on: November 05, 2015, 12:04:44 AM »

Something that certainly bothers me about the current indie scene is that everybody expects to get paid for their hobby. It will be a lot easier to find your niche if you allow people to try your games out more easily. Super Meatboy and Minecraft both started out as freeware games.
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« Reply #55 on: November 05, 2015, 02:13:52 AM »

Gold rush mentality. People see mega success stories like Minecraft or Flappy Bird and think they can get rich making videogames. Bur even if you don't have delusions of becoming an indie game billionaire, there's also just the prospect of making a living doing something you enjoy. And now that it's so easy to sell games a lot of people decide to just give it a shot. As a result there are lots of new  commercial games that would probably have been freeware if they came out 5 years ago.
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« Reply #56 on: November 05, 2015, 05:11:56 AM »

For a true indiepocalypse we'd need conditions that drive indies away, the evidence is this is the opposite.

I'd coin this as comparable opposites. Someone has something that's really good, and focus on what's wrong until the opposite of the truth is the truth.

If 10,000 2D physics puzzle games are released on a daily basis, like crossword puzzles by 2030 then the bar will be higher, not lower. (disclaimer: imaginary figures for hyperbole) Wanting to keep the bar as low as possible is more or less admission someone didn't want to be a very good game developer.
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gimymblert
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« Reply #57 on: November 05, 2015, 09:10:28 AM »

Something that certainly bothers me about the current indie scene is that everybody expects to get paid for their hobby. It will be a lot easier to find your niche if you allow people to try your games out more easily. Super Meatboy and Minecraft both started out as freeware games.

At the same time, there is no such thing as free labor, and while it's a hobby, trying to have a return on a demanding labor help sustain that labor. Expecting a return for labor is only fair. Especially if you try to hit a quality target.
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« Reply #58 on: November 05, 2015, 09:35:27 AM »

otoh, the indie scene was certainly a lot more open, friendly and egalitarian before it became so business oriented
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gimymblert
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« Reply #59 on: November 05, 2015, 10:44:38 AM »

true, and also more design focus, it's hard to have a good design discussion these days, and I have pain to find game like storyteller, argument champion, etc ... these days Huh?

But the indie movement was always about carving a market for themselves as an alternative to AAA
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