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October 25, 2014, 08:45:23 AM
TIGSource ForumsDeveloperCreativeDesignPitch your game topic
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Zest
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« Reply #1520 on: February 13, 2013, 11:47:32 PM »

These are all fucking choice ideas. A video/boardgame hybrid could be crazy cool, and fulfill what all of those DVD boardgame hybrids attempted to do. Not totally sold on sealing a book to a single game, though- that's basically a single-use-install DRM. I like the line of thought, though, of personalizing the experience. Maybe the book would be better suited for it? Allow the user to sign a contract in it or something before they started playing, to get into character and make the book their own.
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« Reply #1521 on: February 14, 2013, 01:21:06 AM »

Yeah, I don't like the one-copy book idea either. It just has the core thing you want, making the book a necessary part of the experience. Though that might be over thinking it. Maybe the book just need to be super interesting.

I was a camp counsellor for 2 years. Kids would carry around these pokedexs, that were little pocket electronic toys that just told you pokemon powers when you typed in their number. they would quiz each other on them, just because they liked pokemon.

The value of a book is two-fold:
  1. You have a physical representation of your appreciation for a product.
  2. You can carry the book around, use it anywhere etc.

The reason I like old instruction manuals is because they told me things about the game, that I needed to know. They set the tone for how to play. Now we just jump in, and often to a detriment, because we don't take the care to become absorbed. We don't digest before we consume. Also, I could read the manual when my parents were watching tv, or it was past my bedtime or something. Games were only sometimes. The book was every time.

You can sit at a desk and pour over your math homework with a friend. It's more personal than at a computer. Because the emphasis is on you and the other. The pokedex was an excuse to bring the social connection pokemon could create with you on the go. It is hard to get someone to play a game with you. It is easy to get them to glance at a page. It is non committal.

You can bust out a book beside a pad and pen, and take notes. You can have it with you while you are playing, while the computer is over there. You can have it beside your computer while your monitor is tied up playing the game.

Wikis are extensive. They will always be more extensive than what devs produce, unless no one cares about your game. Devs can do these things:
  1. put in artwork
  2. customize the presentation to suit the vision of the game
  3. customize the information to be the perfect pocket companion

If you have to look in a book a lot, like an explorer checking his notebook for maps and clues and riddles, then the careful planning of its construction becomes very valuable, and thus irreplaceable by the internet.

And of course, you create templates in the book, or in a separate book, that the player can fill in with their own notes, that they take from the game - which can have some uniqueness to them, for the individual player - or from the web, or from their own calculations, that they must reference while playing, or suffer. ... That's how you make the book forcibly unique. You make the player "sign it" with unique information that shows up only in their campaign, over and over.

They must take great care in how they take their notes because the book has limitations (a physical length). They can print off extra pages on their computer, or buy new blank books/appendices in the store, but they'll want to keep what they do have as pristine as possible.

I would probably make two books: one that is all filled, and one of templates. So a player won't feel afraid of ruining their "main" copy. The template books are more replaceable.

The main book could have all this stuff that is needed to interpret some of the things recorded in the template book by the player, like an encoder ring. It doesn't have to be annoying or whatever. It can be simple. The point is that the player will often need the main book to make best use of their personal book.

When players play local co-op with a friend, or even online, they bring both books with them, and reference both. Occasionally on adventures the players will encounter challenges for which only one player may have a certain kind of valuable information (in their personal book) to help meet it. That player will have to study his own notes, confer with others, and express his ideas so the team can get the best results.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 01:34:43 AM by Graham. » Logged
Zest
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« Reply #1522 on: February 14, 2013, 09:23:42 AM »

What's really interesting is what you're describing is what I feel has made Skylanders so successful. It's a physical object that has value within the game and without. The games are designed for co-op, so you're encouraged to socialize with other players (I'm not even sure if the games have online play), which increases the value of the overall experience. The persistent leveling of the figurine and the simple branching paths makes your figure yours and yours alone, personalizing your experience and giving extra value to the physical object.

Man, we could do a whole compo around using a physical object alongside a game.
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Zest
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« Reply #1523 on: February 14, 2013, 12:22:47 PM »

Some more ideas: Maybe a pre-existing text could be adopted to a new game, to cut down on time and money spent creating prose content. How about a wargame where the player can anticipate an enemy's attacks based on their monologues at a given point in the story? Or an adventure title that relies on unorthodox interpretations of passages from the King James Bible? Or a House of Leaves-style game where parts of the book appear to be speaking to the game, or directly to you?
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« Reply #1524 on: February 14, 2013, 12:27:22 PM »

These ideas are super great Theo and Graham, but probably on a small scale. Ni No Kuni tried its hardest, and it sounds like the book is barely implemented, and only for certain versions. I'd love to see a game do this though, and with self publishing/handcrafting it could work very well on a limited run. As much as I hate games that are only available to some people, this might be worth it. Heck, you could even through a little AR in there.
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Zest
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« Reply #1525 on: February 14, 2013, 12:41:35 PM »

Thanks! I'm thinking small-scale would be best for this sorta thing, and omigosh the potential with small-press works could be so cool. You could make a standalone comic with clues for a tiny Flash game that revealed more story bits and encourage a different reading of the story and omigod stop I need to start ftzing with this shit.
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« Reply #1526 on: February 14, 2013, 01:20:14 PM »

a game where you have to balance various birds on the edge of a chocolate fountain until they are covered. you cant let them fall in/off until they are covered in chocolate.

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« Reply #1527 on: February 14, 2013, 01:56:52 PM »

A flight simulator which would "feel" just like this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEe3xfWfkG8

The existing simulators are all too perfect whereas if you look at the video, you can see that the planes move in all directions all the time yet they are stable. The motion in the video just looks so much more natural (well, it is natural but that's not the point) than the flight sims where you go pretty much straight where you are pointing at.
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Landshark RAWR
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« Reply #1528 on: February 15, 2013, 01:00:11 PM »

die hard: the metroidvania
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« Reply #1529 on: February 15, 2013, 01:43:05 PM »

Has anyone pitched: Gun-totting dungeon-crawler rpg with an environment where everything can be used (or destroyed).

I'm thinking of Nox (or even Diablo for that matter) for the dungeon-crawling elements, and Spelunky for the ability to manipulate objects such as breaking down walls and making rope traps with various weighted objects.
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« Reply #1530 on: February 15, 2013, 02:48:41 PM »

Has anyone pitched: Gun-totting dungeon-crawler rpg with an environment where everything can be used (or destroyed).

I'm thinking of Nox (or even Diablo for that matter) for the dungeon-crawling elements, and Spelunky for the ability to manipulate objects such as breaking down walls and making rope traps with various weighted objects.

Malleable environments tend to come up a lot as speculation because they're an element that can be applied to almost any genre and destroying shit is fun, yeah? But using them to their full advantage is rarely done, and the duality of construction and destruction is not often explored. I'm designing and drawing the sprites for a game with a focus involving exactly that.
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« Reply #1531 on: February 17, 2013, 02:00:49 PM »

Inspiration just hit me:

You know like some tribes send off their elderly to a special place to die in peace?
In my game you are those old people, you can try to survive as long as possible or just explore the wonders of nature one last time. (procedural sandbox & permadeath) Not sure if the game actually rewards you directly for anything.
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« Reply #1532 on: February 18, 2013, 08:48:02 PM »

Maybe it would work better with spartan kids send out in the wild to test them?

As there is a goal to survive and make it back stronger.
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« Reply #1533 on: February 19, 2013, 06:48:33 AM »

That would work, of course, but I really want to experiment with a game that has purely explorational goals.
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Graham-
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« Reply #1534 on: February 19, 2013, 12:53:08 PM »

In connection with the stuff about physical objects being combined with games....

What if through play the player unlocked physical pieces for their real-world construction. So let's say that in the game the player overcomes challenges, obviously. He is given rewards. Some of these rewards include a physical counterpart, or the player is allowed to choose between a digital thing and an actual thing.

The player has this slowly building physical monstrosity. So for example, in this board game I played once with a piece of my family, there was this cool toy-like game piece that had functional value. It was a tower that you dropped different colored pieces into. Some of these pieces fell out of the tower and some stayed inside. It was fun to drop stuff inside it. Based on what fell out of the tower different things would happen in the game. The tower was basically a device for choosing results in a probability space, like a multi-dimensional specially sided die.

So let's say the player had similar devices to be used in the real world in conjunction with the digital game. The devices could: be used as a marker, keeping track of critical information in the middle of a grand battle or something like that; be used as a planning tool, to work through the basics of some kind of abstract strategy, that can be executed in the game but with additional details that could otherwise overwhelm the player; provide functional answers like a calculator (or the probability tower I described earlier). Functional answers could also be found through a series of die roles and moving pieces, and so on.

I like the idea of a planning tool. So if there were rules for the real-word object - like a board with pieces - then the player could play according to them to test out ideas, using the object like a specialized whiteboard with a built-in guide.

The value of a physical board and pieces is such:
  • The player becomes more familiar with the mechanics and ideas presented through it.
  • The player will feel more free in using his imagination with physical pieces.
  • The player is drawn back to the real world through it. He can play it on his floor, at a table, is more aware of his home and surroundings when using it.
  • The player will find it easier to engage others unfamiliar with the digital game in the real-world game. He can use the real-world game as an introduction tool to the digital one, which will have cooperative/competitive multiplayer.
 
Maybe the board game is purely a practice tool. There are all these pieces for it, and as the player earns more rewards in-game he is allowed to order more custom pieces. Or maybe anyone can buy custom pieces and those who earn the necessary rewards in the digital game get an at-cost discount.

So the player buys these pieces then can arrange them to create increasingly complex setups. All of the pieces are highly reusable, almost like K'nex or Lego but way cooler. Each setup corresponds to the training of a particular class of skills, like understanding an element of strategy, or a monster's powers, or how to maximize the value of a new or potential power. The real-world game can be played alone or with others. By following its rules a player can repeatedly try out strategies and learn how they fair.

The biggest advantage of the real-world setup is in the opportunity it provides to test out ideas that are too time expensive in the digital game. For example, let's say the player is an action hero in the digital game who roams a massive battlefield, choosing objectives on-the-go and participating in the challenge each one presents. The results of these challenges are up to the player's action/tactical skills. The results of the entire battle are up to the results of these challenges, and the strategy present in the objectives the player chooses.

For example: the player chooses to protect one area while an ally regroups, instead of flanking the enemy's weak point, say for 5 minutes, then provides support for that ally's return assault for 15 minutes, then runs a gauntlet to an outpost for supplies for 8 minutes, the delivers them to point A instead of B or C. In the digital game there are two kinds of challenges, the low level action/tactics and the high-level strategy, that are merged into a seamless experience. The real-world game focuses on just the strategic elements. The real-world game has value because the player can use it to test out many strategies in a short period of time while he cannot use the digital one to do the same thing.

Obviously you can take any game and apply this formula. Fighters have a high barrier to strategic diversity posed by the necessity to learn and execute complex combos. What if players could discover what strategies they like, what characters they like, and why the game's strategy itself is interesting without having to practice like crazy first. These things could happen in-game but could also happen outside of it. Outside of the game the player could be given a goal to strive towards, an appreciation for how to play character X at a high level, and a desire to master the skills necessary to get there. You could build a board game, a card game, flash cards, or whatever to do this.

If the player earns a reward in-game then he gets a practice tool in-game, or he can buy the out-of-game tool. These tools can be different from each other or not. Maybe the tools that can be purchased/earned give discounts for their real/digital world counterpart.

You can take it further and create custom pieces for the player, that can only be unlocked (not easily pirated). So let's say that in the digital game the player builds up a character and NPC partners and a set of equipment. Then he can go to his computer and print off special game pieces on paper for his real-world setup. These pieces, or just sheets, would have values on them that are not available to the player from the digital game alone. These values would be necessary components in the playing of the real-world game, assuming the player wants to test out strategies that are specific to his digital character and assets. In other words the printed sheets would contain what act like "keys" to make the real-world game work.

Implementing this idea is tricky because it requires the digital game to hide qualities of items the player owns (such as his char). The player can use these things in the digital game but can't know or intuit all of their important stats. Otherwise the printed sheets cannot be charged for or given as a reward. Inventive players could discover ways to determine the stats necessary to make the physical pieces from the digital game alone.

The obvious solution here is to create a function that produces real-world game-piece stats that is tricky enough for players to determine so that the convenience of letting an official site provide pieces (with stats) is enough of a deterrent for players not to cheat.

An even better alternative is to personalize all of the game pieces. So the player has X, Y, Z digital equipment and can therefore buy X, Y, Z in real-world form. X, Y, Z is created with a personal flair that is unique to the player that owns them, based on his/her char/accomplishments in the digital game.

An easy way to do this is have a function that takes the digital versions of a player's personal stuff and creates a set of nice 2D images from them, like a character portrait and so on. You could also have a function turn digital objects into simpler shapes that can then be turned in 3D physical form by routing their construction through a 3D printer or toy/object maker. This would allow players to order truly custom 3D real-world game pieces. They could unlock 2D personal printer versions through the digital game and/or buy the fancy 3D stuff online. The 3D stuff could also require the same unlocks.

Take a skill like intermediate math, put it in the digital game somewhere as just a component, get players to care about the game, have them print off and play with physical components that develop that skill, sell the nicer versions online, boom, kid learns that skill in/through the real world. You have a system for producing learning tools.

Create an interface for players to create/test tools that develop skills in-game. Apply the given system. You have created a market for building and selling the process for learning things (in the real-world).







« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:17:55 AM by Graham. » Logged
Sir Raptor
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« Reply #1535 on: February 20, 2013, 02:34:16 PM »

I notice that there are few games that combine magic with science fiction, and of those games, none of them combine magic with spaceship battles. Let's fix that. I wanna see space wizards in spaceships casting spells while shooting lasers.
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« Reply #1536 on: February 20, 2013, 04:04:28 PM »

Inspiration just hit me:

You know like some tribes send off their elderly to a special place to die in peace?
In my game you are those old people, you can try to survive as long as possible or just explore the wonders of nature one last time. (procedural sandbox & permadeath) Not sure if the game actually rewards you directly for anything.

The game should actually erase itself from the disk when you die.
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« Reply #1537 on: February 20, 2013, 05:00:44 PM »

I notice that there are few games that combine magic with science fiction, and of those games, none of them combine magic with spaceship battles. Let's fix that. I wanna see space wizards in spaceships casting spells while shooting lasers.

w00t

sounds like Spelljammer
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Fetus Commander
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« Reply #1538 on: February 20, 2013, 06:14:51 PM »

Here's one I've been kicking around for a while:

A TCG where your units and abilities are attached to standard playing cards.  You build your deck (attaching units/abilities to cards), and then you draw cards randomly from the deck and place them inside a 5x5 grid while trying to form poker hands that compliment the units.  For example, a unit's description might say “When part of a pair, this unit gets +1 attack” or something, so you'd want to place your cards in a way that ensures all of your units' conditions are met (or as many as possible).  The strategy comes from deck building (both in which units and abilities to use for your deck, and which playing cards to stick them on), and deciding how to place your cards in the grid.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:22:17 PM by Fetus Commander » Logged
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« Reply #1539 on: February 20, 2013, 07:48:02 PM »

I love cel shading just as much as the next guy, but what I really wanna see is a game with this kinda art style.
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